Burns, Hershal
Hershal Burns: Korean War
Interviewed by Takelia Troupe (Student interview)
Interview date 2004
A: Hello, my name is Hershal Burns.
Q: When and where were you born?
A: I was born in Oklahoma City, November 11, 1932.
Q: Was the Korean War expected or did the war and the US involvement come as a complete surprise?
A: To me, of course, it was a complete surprise. I think to most folks. I don’t think it was expected at all.
Q: How old were you when the Korean War broke out?
A: Well, I was, ah, 17 years old. I had joined the Marine Corps reserve at age 15 and had two years with them and then the Korean War broke out on June 25, 1950.
Q: Where were you in the military at the time?
A: Well, at the time, again, I was in the reserves in Oklahoma City as a civilian, and, ah, we made our monthly meetings and had two summer camps behind me, and, ah, that’s when the war broke out and they thought I was well trained and, ah, (garbled) but we were activated – the war broke out June 25, ’50, and we were activated on 29 July 1950. And we left Oklahoma City, we, ah, the battalion – the battalion consisted mostly of 400 men – we had, ah, two companies left out of Oklahoma City, one company in Tulsa and a company (garbled) in San Antonio, Texas. And, ah, we left Oklahoma City on July 2nd for training and I was 16. And I got aboard ship and the ship sailed for San Diego, and, ah, what’s your next question?
Q: Were you a World War II veteran?
A: No, I was too young. I grew up – I was – all through WWII I had relatives in the war, but I was just a kid going through junior high and high school.
Q: OK. If you were not already in the military, were you drafted or did enlist?
A: I enlisted, 1948, like I said, at age 15. I had to tell a story about my age. I had to tell them I was 18. You know, at 17 you could join, but your parents had to sign, and my parents wasn’t going to sign, so I just said I was 18 and they accepted it. And, ah, that’s how I got in.
Q: In what branch of the military did you serve?
A: Well, I was in the US Marine Corps.
Q: What were your personal feelings about going off to war and what were your feelings in regards to communism and the anxieties and tensions it created in the United States?
A: Well, I didn’t know much about communism, but I knew it was not good. But, ah, as you probably know, the Korean War was the first war that communism – the communists got stopped its tracks. They were determined to dominate the world and, ah, then North Korea invaded South Korea, and, ah, they pretty well pushed American forces into the sea. And, ah, that was in the month of July 1950. And so, ah, we thought we’d go over there and stop the war and win the war before Christmas and be home. Didn’t work out quite that way.
Q: What were the feelings of your friends and acquaintances about the war?
A: Well, again, it came as such a shock or a surprise, I suppose, and there wasn’t a whole lot of time to dwell on it. And I told my friends, my family, and my wife that we’d be back in no time, that this thing would be over in thirty days, probably. Like I said, there wasn’t – we were gone in no time – we had no time to think about it.
Q: Did all of the people you knew want to join the military and serve?
A: Oh, yes. My buddies – I joined with a bunch of buddies. I went to Capitol Hill High School and we had quite a few fellows from my class in high school that joined the Marine reserve and they were in my company, and after we were activated I stayed with some of them when I went to Korea. Stayed with – I think there was 18 in my company was from Oklahoma City.
Q: How did your family, wife, or girlfriend feel at the time?
A: Well, they were disappointed that I had to go, of course, but they, ah, they understood, and they supported me. I got a lot of mail, and, ah, at Christmas time I got a lot of packages. Didn’t get them till March, but they sent them before Christmas. Some of it was stale, but for the most part we ate it, passed it around. It was the thought that counts I guess. That’s what counted.
Q: Where did you undertake basic training?
A: Most of the basic training was at – on the West Coast and it, ah, like I said, was at, oh, the San Diego area and also Camp Pendleton in Oceanside, California.
Q: Explain your experiences and impressions of basic training.
A: Well, I didn’t get a whole lot of basic training because, I guess the war broke out so soon, and since I’d been in the reserves for two years, why, they thought I didn’t need a whole lot of basic training, so, ah, I thought otherwise. I wanted to stay. I went and asked for more training and they said, No. They were hurting for people and they were kind of – the Marine Corps was down to a skeleton force between the – after the Second World War. In fact, they tried to abolish the Marine Corps. But they didn’t – Congress. And, ah, so they were really hurting to grab people where they could – activate the reservists in order to make a full division in order to get to Korea, and that’s why I was part of that – I learned about that in a history book later. They were so short that they were just grabbing people from everywhere and trying to form a division, made up of 20,000 men and they were having a hard time meeting the quota.
Q: Explain your experiences and impressions of basic training.
A: Of basic training. Well, like I said, the training I got was an eye-opener. Ah, and I was, of course, young and impressionable. They could tell me anything and I’d do it – I’d believe it, I mean. But ah, I never – in California the cold nights and hot days and get up in the morning and my teeth would be chattering – be freezing. And of course by the time you did calisthenics and then exercise, marching, etc., why, pretty soon you’re sweaty. And, ah, just – I just was impressed – I had never been to California before and it was really impressive to me. It was like a, ah, strange climate, I guess, compared to Oklahoma. To say the least.
Q: After basic training where did the military send you?
A: Well, I was reserve and I basically stayed in school. I was going to high school, and like I said, I graduated in May of ’50, and the war broke out in June of ’50, so, ah, after basic training there was no duty station for me other than Oklahoma City. I stayed in active reserve in Oklahoma City – we had meetings, monthly meetings and summer camp for two weeks training each summer. So that’s where most of my duty station was. It was Oklahoma City, believe it or not.
Q: In what capacity did you serve during the Korean War? Your duty, your rank, and such?
A: Well, that might take several days to explain, but to make it real brief, ah, I was in the Marine Corps and I entered as a PFC, and, ah, I achieved a corporal stripe in Korea, and, ah, they put me in the First Marine Division and also they called it the Fleet Marine Force, and they assigned me to an anti-tank company. Anti-tank company meaning, well, similar to a bazooka only we had a 75 recoilless rifle – 75 millimeter recoilless rifle. It was like an artillery piece with infantry and more accurate and had more range than a bazooka, so all the infantry fellows wanted us with them all the time just because they were – because we had something big and that was more effective against an enemy tank. I might add that the, ah, North Koreans – I think the Chinese entered the war in November 1950 – initially they had a lot of tanks, Russian T-44 tanks and my gun squad consisted of 8 men, and, ah, me being the new guy on the block – the new fellow – I was number eight, the ammunition carrier. Four of us carried ammunition. We only carried two rounds, two shells. And, ah, our squad – the 8-man squad, we got credit for two Russian tanks, one in daylight and one at night. The one at night, the gunner had to open the breach and look through the bore to find the tank was on top of us. This was in the streets of Seoul, South Korea. And he got a silver star and the loader got a silver star, which they deserved. But, ah, my duty was in a – serving in a squad of 8 men, like I said, it was an anti-tank company.
Q: In terms of your own experience in Korea, what kind of conditions did you live and work in?
A: What was that question again?
Q: In terms of your own experience in Korea. . .
A: In Korea. . .
Q: What kind of conditions did you live and work in?
A: Well, I was in the service, obviously. Well, actually, I was there – I was in Korea one year and, ah, the conditions, well, we had to brave the weather. We had to, ah, suffer, ah, ah, the food was scarce, ah, rations. I might add that we went to North Korea and I was at the Chosin Reservoir and there the weather – the history book tells me it got down to minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit, and I suffer from frostbite today and one of my buddies here in Oklahoma City suffers from frostbite on his feet and hands and etc. But we did form a veterans group – it’s an international veterans group called the Chosin Few. It’s spelled C-H-O-S-I-N for Chosin – named after the Chosin Reservoir Battle. That’s where the Chinese entered the war, and basically the First Marine Division was trapped – cut off from all other help. And, ah, they tell me the Pentagon had not – eliminated the First Marine Division. Said there was no way we could get out. But we fought our way out, (garbled), but the weather was tremendous, the weather was our enemy as much as the enemy soldiers, Chinese and the North Koreans.
Q: OK, if you feel comfortable talking about combat, please describe the combat experience you had, if any.
A: Again, this might take – take a long, long time, but to, ah, make it short, I guess, ah, ah, I’ve already said a little bit, that I was in an anti-tank company – anti-tank squad in an anti-tank company, and, ah, we, ah, basically we was just like infantry. We was with the infantry and the infantry wanted us right on the point on all the roads, because the tanks came down the roads. In some of the rice paddies they didn’t work too good, so all the enemy tanks came down the roads and highways and we was always right there. And, ah, I was – being 17 years old initially, I didn’t have a birthday until November ‘50 and turned 18, and but when I was 17 I remember that first 22 days at Inchon, which is 180 miles behind the enemy lines, and – with our – MacArthur’s famous amphibious operation. And we went about 21 – 22 days with, ah, no sleep but what sleep we could get. And, ah, the men were sick and no sleep and feeling terrible, but we – we achieved our goal. We had – liberated the town of Inchon and also liberated the town of Seoul, South Korea. And, ah, a lot of boys got shot. A lot of boys got wounded and saw a lot of action and, ah, after that it seemed like mostly downhill, ah, I guess the initial shock of being in combat, well, wore off after the first 21 days, I suppose. But I was there a year and got evacuated, well, I got sent home. I was real fortunate I never did get wounded, but a lot of my friends did.
Q: What was your most memorable experience in Korea, combat or otherwise?
A: Well, I guess, it was, as I mentioned before, the night the Russian tank come on top of us. And I say on top, he was within 30 yards of us and we were in the middle of the street. We’d dug in in the middle of the street basically with, ah, (garbled) sand bags in front of us about two foot tall, and this tank was shooting, but it was shooting over our heads. And every time he’d shoot, you’d see daylight. It would be like – you read a newspaper, I guess, from the brilliance of the air. And, ah, like I said, I was scared to death and that tank made a noise you, maybe, can’t imagine him coming down the street how noisy it was from a dead-still night, and luckily, our gunner stopped him. Five of our eight rounds to stopped that tank, and, ah, we made them evacuate the tank and had infantry with them, and, of course, we was all shooting them and luckily it stopped their counter-attack at night and they left the tank burning in middle of the street and they, kind of slunk away, the ones that weren’t killed or – had vacated the area. So I was the most excited – the most I’ve ever been scared in my life.
Q: How has that particular experience impacted your life?
A: Well, that’s a good question. I don’t know. Probably made me realize life is short and life can be snuffed out any time, so you don’t want to take anything for granted and take it one day at a time.
Q: What kind of contact did you have with people back home?
A: Well, mail only. No cell phones in those days. No, ah, ah, television or news reporters. Just strictly mail, and, ah, took about ten days for a letter to get home and we had – I know we had free mail. We could write “FREE” in the place where the stamp goes. And that’s kind of funny when I think about it now that the mail didn’t cost anything to send a letter home, if you had time to write, ah, that’s how we communicated back home. Strictly mail.
Q: What kind of correspondence did the military permit?
A: Correspondence? You mean with the family?
Q: (garbled) Just by mail?
A: Just by mail. That was it. Of course, I came home – this question may come up, but I was assigned to a duty station in Virginia, and, ah, of course, then we had, you know, just regular posted duty, and we had contact with parents – calling on the telephone, whatever.
Q: Yeah, that was the next question (laughing). OK, let’s skip that one. What kind of reception did you receive when you got back into the United States?
A: Well, unlike the Second World War, this was five years after the Second World War and to make a long story short, I guess, the people back home knew very little about the Korean War, didn’t know it was going on, and we had casualties each day – we lost 54,000 men in the Korean War, and it took us three years – it lasted three years and one month. So when I got home, other than my family and my church minister and some church people, they met the train. I came home on the train from Treasure Island at San Francisco. And they met me at the train depot at, like, eight o’clock, eight-thirty, or something like this in the morning. Was I surprised to see so many people there, but other than that, ah, there was no parades. There was no bands, there was no – but I didn’t expect anything like that. But there was no, ah, excitement, I guess, stirred for the returning veterans, ah, because it was just – they call it the forgotten war and people in those days were tired of war, I guess, the Second World War, and most of the veterans came home and, ah, once they got discharged – maybe a question that will come up, too – but they rolled up their sleeves and went to work. And that was that.
Q: If indeed you experienced the horrors of war, how did the experience affect your relations and interactions with family, friends, and/or girlfriend.
A: Well, I’m sure it had an affect. It makes you, ah, well, what’s the word – jumpy? Makes you, ah, probably kind of hard to get along with, I imagine. Takes quite an adjustment to get back into civilian life. I don’t having incidents or anything happening, but I’m sure – I know I slept real light, hear any kind of noise outside the house or whatever, I would wake up and, ah, ah, a lot of time. In fact, I had the ability to, ah, pick a time during the night, like 2 AM, I could wake myself up. Like I had internal alarm clock, I guess. I had, had, I suppose most folks have that, but it was real, real sharp, real keen in those days. I finally got over most of that.
Q: Do you still keep in touch with some of the people you served with?
A: Oh yes. Like I said, we have a veterans group here in Oklahoma City – two veterans group. One called the Korean War Veterans Association and one called the Chosin Few and we meet once a month with each group in Oklahoma City. And then once a year with Korean veterans, we meet on a national basis somewhere in the United States and then – those that can make it physically and, and, financially, and have the time. And then, ah, every two years the Chosin Few meets, and, so, I’ve made most of the Chosin Few, ah, reunions across the United States.
Q: And the last question is what kinds of general observations and conclusions do you have about the Korean War and your Korean War experience.
A: Well, like the old saying goes, I wouldn’t take a million dollars for my experience, but I wouldn’t give a nickel to go through it again. Couldn’t probably live through it again. But, ah, I really think we in the United States did the right thing. We stopped communism in its tracks and basically today the proof is that the South Korea is a thriving country. And I’ve had many South Korea come up to me here in Oklahoma City, in fact, and thank me. Many years – 50 years later and still thanking me for serving in the military in order to, ah, save their country from communism. Ah, you can imagine the shape they’d be in today if we had not – Harry Truman – President Truman didn’t to what he did back in 1950.
Q: Thank you.
