Dowdell, W.D. Jr.
W.D. Dowdell, Jr.: World War II
Interviewed by Henry Laakman (Midwest City Rotary)
Interview date: 11/17/2004
Q: When and where were you born?
A. Ah, May 29, 1921. Jackson, Tennessee.
Q: Wow. When did you first begin thinking that the US might get involved in World War II?
A: I was in Baylor University at, ah – forgot now what town it’s in! (laughter) I was at Baylor University and was – I had a football scholarship. And, ah, I left there and that was in 1940, and I went home for – after the first year. And I began doing work, ah, work for World War II (garbled). And, ah, I did that for, ah, three years until I couldn’t stand myself (laughing). I knew that everybody that saw me walking down the street were saying “Why isn’t that peckerwood. . .
Q: Serving?
A: Yeah, why hadn’t he – or why isn’t he in this war. I took two six-month deferments ‘cause I was really needed. I was being taught and learned to be a, ah, engineer, a, ah, well, what kind of engineer would you call it – I did level work and, ah, work where you make corners and all that and everything. I was – civil engineer.
Q: Oh, sure.
A: Civil engineer. I did that for three years and finally I just through up both hands and I said “No more! No more! I’m going.”
Q: Well, what was your reaction and the reaction of your family and friends when Pearl Harbor was attacked?
A: The reaction was I, ah, had taken some people who were interested in going to Baylor and I – I took them down to Baylor to get acquainted and everything by car and my mother went with me. And, ah, the man and his wife that was the head of everything there were, were – of the Baylor that we lived in – the place – ah, we were coming home in our car and on the – we learned about it right then and there – that morning when it happened. Oh brother! It touched everybody, you know that! It really did. And, ah, that’s why I really worked hard at my job and I did not go to Baylor because they needed me so badly. So I stayed and worked with a construction company out of Chicago that, ah, that – they had to have somebody to do a lot of work of, ah, gosh, I forget what you call it – kind of work, but it was – level work and putting down posts and all that and everything. And that’s what I learned to do and that’s what I did.
Q: Kind of surveying?
A: Surveying, yeah.
Q: So the next question is how old were in ’41? You said you were born in ’21, so you’d have been 20 years old.
A: Twenty years old.
Q: And, of course, the next question said were you already in the military in ’41, but obviously you weren’t, but shortly thereafter.
A: I went in in ’43.
Q: So it says how did the other men in your area feel about serving in the military?
A: Ah, I didn’t see anything but good feelings, ah, from the fellows in west Tennessee because that’s where I worked when I came home from Baylor. It was a little town – Milan, Tennessee – which is about 20 miles north-northwest of Jackson, Tennessee, and that’s where I was working.
Q: So how did your family, wife, or girlfriend feel about you going off to war?
A: They thought it was wonderful. They encouraged me and prayed for me and everything else.
Q: Let’s see, in what branch of the military, then, did you serve?
A: I served in the navy, but it wasn’t because I wanted to. It was because, ah, when I went to Fort Oglethorpe in, ah, I guess it’s in South Carolina, Fort Oglethorpe, well, I think it’s Georgia – it’s in Georgia where they indoctrinated me – took me in. They, ah, they gave me a thing to carry to the people that was taking care of it, and, ah, he, ah – I wanted to fly, was what I wanted to do, but I was married. I was already married. And I knew that, ah, the air force didn’t take – I couldn’t fly – they wouldn’t take me – I was already having a wife, see.
Q: Really?
A: Yeah, so, but they had a lot of sergeants – they had flying sergeants that were married. So that, so when he asked me what part of the service did I want, I wanted the air force. So that young man stamped my papers and I walked – told me to go over to see this other guy over here. And on the way I looked down and it says “N-A-V-Y” in big letters! (laughter) Big letters! I turned around and I said, “Sir, you made a mistake.” He said “What was that?” And I told him and he looked at it and he looked back up at me and he said “Buddy, you’re in the navy!” (laughter) Well, what I found out later was that the navy was hurting for people and this was one of those days that I got there just in time for him to put me in the navy!
Q: OK, so that Oglethorpe was just a processing center?
A: Yeah.
Q: And so the next question is where did you undertake basic training?
A: Basic training was done in San Diego, California, ah, I, ah, they got a big . . .
Q: Ah-huh, still is.
A: And I got my – all my young work – negative work – whatever you call it work – there at San Diego. And they jerked me out of there early and, ah, sent me to Pearl Harbor and they wanted me to become a radar man. Well, I didn’t know what that was, Hank! I’d never even heard of radar at that time. So I had one week of schooling. . .
Q: Academics, huh?
A: Yeah, one week of schooling and they decided that they needed two teachers. And, ah, a young man from 45 miles due west of Enid – Trevia (?) I believe the name of the town was. He was from that town. He was a farmer’s son and we two were chosen – out of 800 men we were chosen to go to work and teach.
Q: No doubt your engineering background had a lot to do with that.
A: Yeah, that helped. But, see, what I really and truly would liked to have done was gone into Seabee work. The navy had Seabee workers. . .
Q: Because of your engineering?
A: Yeah. But, ah, they, ah, they put me in that radar and I don’t know why they did, but the officer in charge, ah, took us out the first morning, ah, my buddy and me, and showed us how to start the radar gear. And it was the radar gear that picked up the Jap planes coming in on Pearl that morning. That Sunday morning. And, ah, he showed us how to start the equipment and all that and everything, and then he told us “Just reverse it when you get done with your work.” And then he says “Get ready,” he says, “You’re – you’re fellows will be here in 10 minutes.”
Q: Golly!
A: (laughing) I tell you, man, I’ve gone through some things! And so he and I – this farmer’s son and myself, we, ah, we went to work and we taught that radar – SCR270 – it wan army radar.
Q: Well, let’s catch up here. You’ve already kind of – let’s see, after basic training where did the military send you? That was Pearl Harbor.
A: Ah-huh.
Q: And in what capacity did you serve? So did you – did you stay the rest of the war there in Pearl Harbor? Or did you . . . .
A: No, I didn’t stay there. I was there for a year – almost a year and a half. I was all over the Pacific.
Q: Did we have radars? I mean, I knew about the radars, you know, at Pearl, but we did we have radars elsewhere in the Pacific?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did we really?
A: On all our ships.
Q: Oh, OK, on ships?
A: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I, ah, I was sent out on various ships at times for one week or two weeks at a time. For example, ah, our aircraft carrier Independence came back to Pearl Harbor after it had taken a torpedo at, ah – oh, where was that – down close to the equator it had taken a torpedo, and so they went back to San Francisco and they fixed the – they fixed the, ah, I’ll tell you in a minute – can you turn it off for just a minute?
Q: Sure. (break in tape recording). Well, let’s pick it up here where one of the things that it says was . . .
A: Wait a minute – on the aircraft carrier? When they came back, they had young men in their radar unit – in the CIC unit of their, of their ship. And I went aboard that to teach those young men . . .
Q: To teach those guys.
A: Actually in duty.
Q: So, what was your rank, and then, I guess, you partially answered the part about the places that you served during World War II.
A: My rank was just a pure old young man that had just got out of the, out of the boot camp in San Diego, when they sent me to Pearl Harbor.
Q: Seaman no-class?!
A: I was just a seaman. In due time, I earned one stripe, and then in due time I earned a second stripe and before I finished, ah, and, ah, all my work with them, I ended up a first class petty officer. And they gave me – offered me – ah, they wanted me to stay and continue with them, but I was already married and I didn’t want to raise a family . . . so I, I did not accept it. So. . .
Q: Now where was your wife, like, all during this World War II?
A: She was in Long Beach, California, where she worked for a big airplane company. I forget the name of it.
Q: Long Beach. That would probably be in the, well, let’s see, was it Douglas or, ah, Rockwell. Rockwell ended up being the . . .
A: I think it was Douglas.
Q: I think Douglas was the . . .
A: Ah-huh. I think it was Douglas.
Q: But, ah, . . .
A: She worked there.
Q: OK, and then, you know, what were your living conditions? During your experience, under what kind of conditions did you live, you know, what was the food, clothing, just – housing – and those kinds of conditions?
A: Food was good. Ah, my bed was, ah, of course, mosquitoes were terrible in Hawaii, and we had to sleep with, ah . . .
Q: Netting all over you?
A: Netting all around us and everything. And, ah, I didn’t mind that, though. That was alright as far as I was concerned. We – our shower and other stuff was all down in another building. Nothing in the beds where I slept – for all of us that was there. But was alright. I didn’t mind it because it wasn’t long after I had – was doing this till, till I was asked to be the, ah, chief petty officer, or, well, what you would call the sheriff. I became the sheriff, see, with 800 – with 800 people going through school they needed some. . .
Q: Supervision?
A: Supervision, ‘cause we all had to go out at seven o’clock every morning and do our calisthenics.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And when I was made the chief, the chief . . . I had to – I had – I had to take care of those boys and make those boys do what they ought to do. And I did (laughter). I was – I was the head knocker.
Q: (laughter) Well, during that period of time, what kind of contact did you have with your family back home?
A: I didn’t have any contact to speak of. One thing came on the radio about this time was that the – they were going to salute Jackson, Tennessee. And that was the people that had a Hawaiian band and they’d been doing that before I ever went to Hawaii or before the war ever started. And, ah, that was wonderful. So I notified my wife so that she could hear that – be available that day, and I was, ah, was told I could not be apart of that deal. And, ah, my guy in charge of our school went up to Admiral Nimitz – went all the way up to him. . .
Q: Wow.
A: To get his OK that I could be on that program if I would not talk about radar, and I did. And I, ah, my family got to listen on the radio because they had three of us, and when they interviewed us and everything it was – it was something, I’ll tell you!
Q: Yeah, yeah.
A: It was something!
Q: Now what about with you wife, like, how often could you, I mean . . .
A: That’s the only time I – you – we didn’t call everybody the way we do now, you know.
Q: But what do you mean, just letters?
A: But letters, yeah.
Q: Did letters flow fairly regularly?
A: Oh, yeah, ah-huh. Oh yea.
Q: So everything was through the post?
A: Yeah. Yeah. I, ah, I had to do double duty – not had to teach, but I, ah, some of those boys that would come off those ships up there to school, they didn’t want to, ah, come up to that school, they wanted to be downtown!
Q: Yeah (laughing)!
A: And there were – and every, every . . . Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday – Saturday, every Saturday, we had to cleanup all of our equipment and everything. Get everything in excellent shape because it had to be inspected. And I was in charge of that. And then some of them youngsters, they didn’t want – they wanted to go downtown. And I had to take off my, my gloves, if I had any, and I took my. . .and I told them what they was going to do. . . and finally they told me they was going to whoop my you-know-what!
Q: (laughing)
A: And I gave them that opportunity and not a single one of them ever came.
Q: That’s where that football scholarship came in handy?
A: That’s right (laughing). I’ll tell you, man, I sure was grateful that nobody – I gave them the opportunity because I had taken all that I could take.
Q: So when you were, like, how long, Bill, did you end up having to go around to the ships and did you. . . .
A: I did that for a year and a half.
Q: Year and a half.
A: Yea.
Q: And did you come into combat when you were out on those ships?
A: Yes. Yes. I, ah, I was made a part of a fighter director team: three officers and four enlisted men. And we, for example, would go out on various ships that we were put on and we would take over the radar business and the, ah, taking care of planes flying around and so forth, and, ah, we were a very, very important seven young men – seven men – three officers that really knew their business about sending out our planes to take care of the Jap planes, and so forth. And we four enlisted men took care of getting all the information, getting it in writing, and so forth, in the radar room of these various ships. We spent a lot of our time in a destroyer – destroyer – out at the edge of the other ships that were in this – we were in, at that time, I was in the Third Fleet – oh, I forget the guy’s name, now. You know his name as well as mine.
Q: Halsey?
A: Not Halsey, but. . . can’t think of his name. . . I can see him, but can’t think of his name.
Q: But now you mentioned Nimitz earlier. . .
A: But Nimitz, of course, we running everything in the Pacific, see. He was a great guy, I’ll tell you, a great guy. Um, oh, I can’t think of that guy’s name. But anyhow, I was also put aboard – the navy came, came out with a ship that didn’t do anything on that ship but all – everybody that was going to run things at the various islands and wherever it was we were going to have to fight and everything, and, ah, I, I served for two or three months on that – on that – on that type ship. As a matter of fact, there was only 6 of them in the world.
Q: Huh.
A: And I used to have to take officers and when we’d get – have to take care of sending out our ships – our planes – I’d have to get them out of my way to – I’d take my elbow and make some of them generals and admirals – because they got in my way in the CIC room. I – I told . . . hush, Bill!
Q: So was there any, ah, particular combat experiences, Bill, that you care to share?
A: Well, there’s only one that I got that close to everything. Ah, ah, I was put aboard a ship and we went – if you’d take a line and draw from Tokyo down – straight down, we went past that line, and we had to – there was 5 islands that they wanted to take over. And, ah, I helped in the getting all the information and (garbled) to taking care of planes – Jap planes – and, ah, we took those 5 islands. And then they put us on another destroyer and sent us with 4 baby carriers – aircraft carriers. . .
Q: Those are the kind that your neighbor flew off of. Grover flew off of these – I forget the technical name, but I remember the baby carriers was what Grover was flying off of.
A: Yeah, there was four of them that we took down to the Admiralty Islands from where we were after we pretty much got, ah, these islands under our control and everything. Oh, boy! It was tough. I was – I’d go – I walked down on the deck of our ship, and, ah, watch our boys who were trying to fight the Japs, and that particular island, ah, they had – there was a lot of coral, and, ah, the Japs had built up stuff like elevators and things like that in all of that coral and at the proper time they’d come out with those big guns and, and, and fire. Ah, I’d see those marines come back down just – it’d tear you up. Wasn’t anything I could do.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Wasn’t anything I could do except pray.
Q: Yeah.
A: It was awful – terrible. But they did it. We did it.
Q: So was that your most memorable experience?
A: Ah-huh.
Q: And how long was, like what was the duration of that operation, Bill, from the time you started assault on those islands until that operation was completed?
A: It was, ah, that part of it that you’re asking me about was only about, ah, seven or eight days is all. It was all – I went – I went down below the equator in getting out there. I went down, and, we, we went into a place about 85 miles west of, ah, Guadalcanal. And, ah, that’s – I was on this ship that had all the electronic stuff and everything. And, ah, I was on it for awhile and then they put me on a destroyer and it was, ah, and put me back on that other ship that all the. . . . and after we took that first island they were ready to send those four baby carriers back to the Admiralty Islands, which is a long way from where we were.
Q: Now when you crossed the equator for the first time, did you get inducted? (laughing)
A: I sure did! (laughing) Oh, boy! They go for that!
Q: So what all does that entail?
A: Oh, well, when I tell you what I’m about to tell you, you’ll say, “Oh, you lucky guy!” I was on the fantail of this ship and, ah, they were putting us through the run around – the run through – all – oh, brother! I mean they – they paddled your little rump, I’ll tell you. They indoctrinated you! All at once the. . .
Q: So now the people that make up that gauntlet, are those everybody that’s already been across the equator before?
A: Yeah, yeah.
Q: So they get to form up a line and take a whack at you as you go through?
A: That’s right. That’s right.
Q: Dang, that was a pretty long line probably!
A: But in my case that line was already fixed up and they was going through there and all at once on the loud speakers, ah, “Bill Dowdell wanted at, at the radar room. Bill Dowdell come to the radar room at once!” Well, what had happened, some Jap planes was coming in on us and they wanted me to take care of that, see. So I had to tell them what to do and all that and everything. So I got out of all this bad stuff! (laughter) I got – I got –
Q: You got your certificate and everything.
A: I got my certificate and everything cause I had to go back into the . . . and take care of things that I knew about.
Q: Well, you can’t beat that! (laughing) So, Bill, how long were in you in the service then all total?
A: Three and a half years. Oh, something else I started to tell you. Before we went, ah, far west we were 85 miles from Guadalcanal. Ah, they announced to us that, ah, Bob Hope was bringing his people to the – the next Friday or Saturday morning and put on a show for us.
Q: Oh, my gosh.
A: And they couldn’t get him there. So they flew him over from Guadalcanal to where we were because there’s no airports or anything like that. They flew them on cub planes that could only carry one person and, and . . .
Q: And the pilot?
A: . . .and the pilot. And I got to go to that deal. And it – I – I wouldn’t take anything for it!
Q: Boy, I’ll tell you, you know I was a pilot in Vietnam. . .
A: Bless your heart.
Q: And all the time that I was there I was hoping that I would get to see a Bob Hope Show because he came over every year, but I never – he never came to where I was stationed.
A: Well, I’m telling you, I – I knew of Bob Hope and all that because, see, by that time I was 22 or 23 – something like that – and, man, I praised Bob Hope and them. He said some marvelous things, but those women came out there in full dress! Oh, man!
Q: Yeah.
A: And none of them did anything that would make you want to think about, ah, the fact that your wife was back over somewhere else. You hadn’t been with your wife for months and months and months and months. It was great! He was great!
Q: Yeah, well, you know – gosh, how many years he did that?
A: Oh. . .
Q: Between Korea and Vietnam. . .
A: Oh, I tell you, it was something. Oh! Those little planes – those little planes. . .
Q: Cubs?
A: . . . landed on the edge of the water! Just the edge of the water. They had sand, you know – that’s where they landed.
Q: My word!
A: Yeah! Isn’t that something?
Q: Well, you know, just what you were just saying kind of made me, now, you know, when I was in Vietnam, like half-way through our tour – our tours were one year . . .
A: Yeah.
Q: And half way through our tour we’d get an R&R [rest and relaxation]. We’d get, you know, if you were married you get to go to Hawaii, usually. . .
A: Right.
Q: Did you get a – did you have any kind of R&R?
A: No.
Q: So you didn’t get to see your wife for three and a half years?
A: No, no, no! For a year and a half. See, I was only over in Pearl for a year and a half. Ah, they – they weren’t satisfied with what was being done for the young men at Virginia Beach, Virginia, so they, ah, they took me back – had me to come back from overseas from Pearl after a year and a half. And I was attached – I was sent to, ah, a hotel about 10 or 12 – 10 or 12 floors – they’d taken over the whole hotel and – to teach radar.
Q: Huh. Now would this have been at Norfolk Naval Air Station?
A: Norfolk, yeah. Norfolk. Ah, right on. . .
Q: Right on Virginia Beach, there.
A: Right on Virginia Beach.
Q: Yeah.
A: And, ah, I had to teach there. And, ah, I, ah . . .
Q: So then your wife got to . . .
A: She was with me then.
Q: She got to join you there.
A: When I went back home, I mean went back to the states. Yeah, that was something. I was there for about 6 months and then they sent me to Pearl Harbor – no, no, no! Sent me to, ah, San Diego. And there I had to teach young men to be able to go behind Plexiglas – we got to using Plexiglas and . . .
Q: Writing backwards in those control rooms?
A: Yeah, ah-huh. Yeah, yeah.
Q: I’ll tell you what, I’ve always seen pictures of that, you know, in command centers of some sort and, and people who write backwards, and I thought – man, I tell you, that’s. . . .
A: Hank, Hank, I had to teach the young men to do that, and, ah, that’s not easy to do!
Q: I’ll bet it’s not!
A: And, and, I would start out by getting up to the board and I’d write “Bill Dowdell” upside down and backwards!
Q: You can still do it, can’t you?
A: Oh, yeah, I can still do it! (laughing)
Q: Ah, so then, ah, what kind of – well, when you came back to the United States, it says, what kind of reception did you receive when you got back? Did you get to go through Tennessee and see your folks at all on the way back?
A: Yes, yes. I did. Yes, I, ah, I had 30 days for that. And it was wonderful. I, ah, I, I had, ah, played a little poker going over coming back to the states. And we landed up at, ah, Seattle. And, man, it started snowing that night! Oh, did it snow! And here – I had a pea coat and never had worn a pea coat! I like to froze to death, I’ll tell you! But, anyhow, I had won about three or four hundred dollars and I put it in and so I flew down to my wife, see, cause we came in to Seattle. . .
Q: Yeah.
A: . . . and I was still a long ways from . . . (laughing)
Q: From San Diego, yeah, it sure is. Yeah, it is.
A: Quite some experiences! So I flew down and, ah, met her and then we caught a train going back to Tennessee. And we went on the train and I was treated as if I was somebody important, yeah. There was people that would want us to go eat with them, which I appreciated. And they wouldn’t let me pay a dime. I was treated marvelously, wonderfully. I got nothing but to brag on people of the United States, I’ll tell you!
Q: Yeah. So it says in terms of your war experience, how did that experience affect, if at all, your, you know, interrelations or reactions with your family, friends, spouse, girlfriend after that? I think you just hit on that.
A: Nothing. Nothing but good.
Q: Nothing but good.
A: Nothing but good. Nothing but good. Bless her heart, she, she, ah, she worked like a Turk. She was on the night shift where she was working at . . .
Q: At Long Beach there?
A: Yeah, ah-huh. Yeah.
Q: Do you still keep in touch with any of those World War II, ah, comrades that. . . .
A: I did, but not now. Ah, for a long time I, I, ah, stayed in touch with some of them, but in the last 20 years, I guess, it’s . . .
Q: You know, it’s interesting, Grover’s experience is almost just the opposite.
A: Um.
Q: For a number of years he – he – he didn’t – wasn’t able to attend ship reunions?
A: Ah-huh.
Q: But here in the last number of years he’s started going to ship reunions, and so he’s had, you know, a little bit of the opposite experience.
A: Hank, I’ve had that opportunity, but, ah, the ones that I’ve the opportunity extended to me, ah, you had to be a heavy drinker to get with them. And I don’t do that. I didn’t do that. I don’t do it now. I didn’t do it. . . I never did. I never did to go to any of those things, but that’s the reason I didn’t.
Q: Ah-huh. So how has your World War II experience impacted your life? Did it affect your views on other wars, ah, that the US became involved with after World War II, for example?
A: Well, ah, I have nothing but the highest esteem for the people of the navy that I worked with in World War II, and when I came home and, ah, didn’t have to wear my navy suit anymore or anything, ah, I became a great booster. . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: . . . for young people to, ah, get whichever deal – whatever they needed to do it – and I – I’ve helped an awful lot of people do the . . . and I don’t regret any of it because we had good people.
Q: As Peter Jennings said, “The Greatest Generation.”
A: Yeah. That’s right.
Q: Yeah. Well, what, ah, I don’t know about your career after World War II, about all the – did you stay involved in engineering or . . . ?
A: No, after World War II, ah, I – I needed to work. I needed to go to work. And, ah, I don’t know exactly how this came about, but someone told me that Ernest Eddington who owned Eddington Wholesale Grocery – he had – the main building was in Jackson, Tennessee and he had, ah, eight surrounding towns that he had groceries in. And I went to him to get a job. And, ah, he said, ah, I’ll talk to – he – I had been told that the head knocker of, ah, I forget which deal it was was in Memphis, Tennessee, and, ah, they’re the ones that make washing powder and soap and all that and everything.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: I can’t even think now their names, but he wrote a wonderful letter about me because, ah, and sent me to Memphis to meet this fellow and to talk to him about a job. And he wanted this fellow to hire me because he was a big customer of them. And I went over there and I sat for three hours and finally somebody came to me and I hold them why I was there and they said, Oh, I’m sorry, he’s gone. He’s already gone. Already left. And I went back and the next Monday or Tuesday of the next week – this was on a Saturday – ah, a friend of mine said, “Have you told Ernest Eddington how you was treated?” I said, “No.” He said, “You ought to do that.” So I went down to the office and told him. And he said – to make a long story short, he said, “To heck with them, I’ll just hire you myself.” And I went to work for J C Union Company, Jackson, Tennessee and was with them for twelve and a half years until they sold out. And then, ah, I went with Wells-Lamont Corporation, Chicago, for 30 years. Ah, the world’s largest glove manufacturer at the time.
Q: So how in the world did you end up here in Oklahoma, Bill?
A: Ah, this is where they needed me.
Q: Oh, so you were here while you were working for them?
A: I was in Jackson, Tennessee, when I was working for Ernest Eddington.
Q: Right.
A: But, ah, when they hired me out of Chicago, they wanted me to move to, ah, to out here. And I was going to probably move to Tulsa because there was so much that fit in with where – but they told me no, make it Oklahoma City.
Q: Ah-huh. Well, I’ll be darned.
A: So I had quite a few experiences for the next 30 years! (laughter.
Q: Yeah.
A: I did – well, take the Fleming Company.
Q: Oh, yeah.
A: I know you know about the Fleming Company.
Q: Oh, gosh, yeah.
A: I, ah, I got a call from Ned Fleming when – shortly after the company sold the business out, and, ah, so, ah, I, ah, I had been chosen by the guy in New York City who was the head knocker of all the grocery people in the United States, ah, NAGUA (?)is the name of this, and, ah, I was offered a job with him as the head knocker, and, ah, I thought about it and I finally – I didn’t want to work like that. I didn’t want to work behind a desk. I thought that my things that I did, I was better on the other side of the desk. So I turned it down. It was a beautiful situation. And then I got a call from Ned Fleming, the head of Fleming Company. And he says, “I want you to go to work for me.” And, ah, so he sent his plane down, picked me up and my wife. To make a long story short, I didn’t like what he offered me and I didn’t like what he offered me to do. He wanted me to be on his side of, of the, ah, of the table. And I – I felt that I would not make a good that kind of work. And I turned him down. And the next thing I know, I was offered a job by Wells-Lamont Corporation and they wanted me to move to Oklahoma. And they let the guy go that had taken this job, and I was with them 30 years.
Q: Well, Bill is there any aspects of your World War II experience that we didn’t touch on that you’d like to comment on?
A: Well, I wouldn’t take anything for my three and a half years in the navy. Ah, I think I would have thoroughly enjoyed staying in the navy. I adjusted pretty well to everything that came up. But, as I told you a while ago, I didn’t want to stay in the navy and then have to be gone a lot and let my wife raise the children. So I wouldn’t take anything for my work with the navy. I was treated marvelously. I – I served duty on about 7 or 8 different ships – and I’m talking about real serving, long-time serving. I was on several ships that I was on just a week at a time or two weeks, plus that one time that I was gone for three months when I was trying to help. So it was rich. I wouldn’t take anything for it. But when I came home like I did – I was telling you – again, I did the right thing, I think. And I’m pleased and happy and I wouldn’t take anything for it. I worked in the wholesale grocery business. I started at the bottom and went to the top. And then I started as a salesmen for them and continued as salesmen for 30 years and I wouldn’t take anything for what I – I was told on the night that they through a big shindig for me down in Florida – oh, a huge shindig for me. I was honored as if I was important. I don’t consider myself important, but, I’m very fortunate.
Q: Well, that’s a fortunate man that can look back with that kind of, you know, memory and fondness.
A: But, ah, I, ah, I’ve got nothing but good to say about people that I rubbed shoulders with.
Q: OK, now I’ve got one more question, but it’s not on this list.
A: OK.
Q: I bet you probably could - feel like you could still start for Baylor – still make the team??!! (laughing) Is the scholarship still open?
A: I wished it was. I didn’t go back to school after the war. I really should have, but I didn’t and – but then everything worked out alright because, gee, ah, the things that I was pretty good at. . .
Q: You did well at. . .
A: Yeah.
Q: So now who you going to be rooting for this weekend?
A: Oh, this weekend? I’m going to be rooting for Baylor! (laughter) Sunday morning I got up and I said, “you all want to sing the good old Baylor line with me?” They kid me, I’m telling you.
Q: I bet. What position did you play there?
A: Ah, they got me as the quarterback.
Q: Really?
A: I, ah, was doing alright. I, ah, I was battling with one guy that was a crackerjack. Ah, as freshmen, I did alright, and he did alright. And I busted my hip when he was carrying the ball in practice, but, ah, I didn’t let that bother me. But I – they treated me great down at Baylor. I wouldn’t take anything for it. If the war hadn’t come along I would have finished at Baylor. Wonderful school. Wonderful school.
Q: Yeah.
A: I’ll be yelling for Baylor. They don’t have the money that – that any of the these other teams have.
Q: Like TCU and some of them.
A: Yeah, they don’t have the money.
Q: I’m trying to think who were some of the famous football players that come out of Baylor?
A: Well, when I, ah, when I was there, they had a – here I go again – I – I wished my memory was better than it is.
Q: Now like Don Meredith, he didn’t – he didn’t play at Baylor. He played at – what was it TCU that Don Meredith played for?
A: I think so. Ah, well, yeah, but, ah, oh, if I could think of these guys’ names – I can see them. One of them was All-American, and the other one was Honorable Mention All-American and he was an end. And I used to tackle him. I’ve tackled him and I just weighed 149 pounds, see? And, boy, when you tackle somebody that weighs 230 pounds. . .
Q: You’re giving away – you’re giving away. . .
A: But I’d tackle them between, ah, go with my pads and I’d bet them below the knees. I tell you man (laughter)!
Q: Now was that Southwest Conference back then?
A: Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah. I’ll tell you something else. One of the fellows that I got accustomed or learned about, he was the guy that was on the front page of the magazine – I forget the name of it, but . . . 60 years ago there was a magazine – “Look” or something like that.
Q: “Life” probably?
A: “Life.” And this young man could punt a ball 80 yards.
Q: Oh, my goodness.
A: Barefooted.
Q: Oh, my goodness.
A: So he came at the same time that I did at Baylor. And I was a punter, too. Ah . . .
Q: Did you – did you have to play both ways? Did you have to play defense, too?
A: No. No, I didn’t, but I did do kicking. I did do the kicking, though, along with the other. But this – this young man only lasted two weeks because that kind of kicking is no good. Because your people can’t get down in time to take care of things, see.
Q: Yeah.
A: So where I kicked. . .
Q: Get it up higher.
A: Yeah.
Q: Let the coverage get down there.
A: Oh, boy, it was something. I felt sorry for him, but, but, that’s the way it was. He – his went just like that, but you got to do it like that, you know.
Q: Yeah, you got to get some hang time.
A: Oh, I wish I could think of these guys that made All-American down there. There was two of them. I can see them but I can’t think of their name. I’m sorry.
Q: So, let’s see, I guess OU plays down in Waco this weekend.
A: Yeah, they sure do.
Q: Well, you must have been pretty proud when Baylor put the lights out on Texas A&M, then.
A: Oh, brother, you better believe it! I couldn’t believe what it was running into there, I’ll tell you.
Q: Was it always – I mean did you play at College Station, you know, during your time there and were the Aggies as tough, you know, an environment to play in back then? To score and all that?
A: We only played three games in the, ah, as a freshmen. And one of them was at where they still play. . .
Q: College Station down there?
A: No.
Q: Oh, in Waco?
A: No, in Dallas.
Q: Oh.
A: Where they have the Cotton Bowl.
Q: Cotton Bowl?
A: I think that that was, well, there were three different ones that we did and I can’t think of what their names were now, but we did alright. I got the – I got the, ah, new name. I, ah, I can’t even think what that name was now. . . I got a whole passel of stuff out there in the garage.
Q: Yeah. Well, Bill, I sure appreciate your letting me come over here and interview with you, and. . .
A: Well, I hope it’s of interest.
Q: Oh, it certainly is. We, ah, what they do, Bill, with this is they will transcribe this and put it on a web site that Rose State College has and it’s there for, of course, all of our interviews are documented on the web site and, and, then of course we keep the tape as well.
A: Well, I’ll say.
Q: But, it’s been a real interesting project. We got interested in this when, ah, you know, when Brokaw wrote his book about the greatest generation and started, you know, bringing attention to the fact that there were, you know, like 30,000 World War II veterans that were dying every month, you know, and so, it’s like, gosh, if we don’t document some of this history, it’ll be lost if we don’t. And so, ah, you know, I think a lot of groups like Rotary have made a, you know, effort to try to – try to find as many of our veterans from that era and, you know. . .
A: Well, that’s great.
Q: . . . document their stories and it’s been a lot of – it’s really enjoyable.
A: Well, let me tell you something that happened to me two years ago. Ah, somebody told somebody at the school – that’s, ah, go out Reno here for about three miles and turn right and then there’s some schools right down there on the right. And, ah, I was told, ah, that a lady wanted to talk to me. And I says, alright, tell her to give me a ring. And she did. She says – to make a long story short – she says, “I’m teaching three year – third grade – and I want you to come a tell these kids something about World War II. I understand you were in World War II.” And I says, “Yes ‘mam, I was.” I went out there and talked to them kids, but they didn’t bring in her kids, they brought in three teachers’ kids, sat them all on the floor and then began asking me questions. And for almost an hour I answered their questions. I wouldn’t take anything for that!
Q: And how old were those kids?
A: They were third grade, ah, eight years old, I guess, something like that – eight and nine years old. I wouldn’t take anything for it! You talk about a guy that left with his chest sticking out! Them kids – they wouldn’t yell and holler, but they’d hold up their hands and they’d ask me questions – well, some of the questions I couldn’t answer and some of them I’d have to back off or so forth because their questions were – but it was really something. . .
Q: Yeah, that’s wonderful.
A: And, and, those ladies came to me and said, “Mr. Dowdell, you were magnificent!” I’ll tell you, it just made me feel so good!
Q: Oh, I’m sure! That’s great.
A: (laughing) Oh, boy!
Q: We had our boss over at Boeing now is – his wife, I think has got relatives in Guthrie and they asked Ben to go speak over there, you know, on Veteran’s Day last week, and, he came back, Bill, with the nicest – they had made him – they made him a flag out of a big piece of paper and they took their hand prints, you know, they made hand prints for the stars, you know, and then they put their little hands all in rows for the red and white, you know, stripes. And it’s just the most beautiful thing. And it’s all made of little kids’ handprints.
A: Oh, that’s . . .
Q: It’s beautiful!
A: How about that (laughing) – that’s great!
Q: And he had a, you know, similar feeling. He said some of those little kids were – he said, “My gosh,” he said, “There were two brothers there that were just like little military historians, you know.”
A: Well, I’ll say!
Q: He said they were really impressive.
End of interview.
