Law, James E.
James E. Law: World War II
Interviewed by Ben Robinson (Midwest City Rotary)
Interview date: 9/9/2004 (telephone interview)
Q: So Mr. Law – may I call you Jim?
A: Oh yeah, sure.
Q: Alright, Jim, I got a number of questions here. Number one is, ah, when and where were you born?
A: I was born in Smithburg, Maryland, in 1919 – December 16.
Q: You know, that’s amazing. My dad was born the same year – 1919.
A: Yeah, now Smithburg, Maryland is, well, I lived in the country. And it was about six miles from where Camp David is now. Back in the 20s and 30s I used to, ah, hunt and fish all over that area there.
Q: Well, that’s magnificent. That’s . . .
A: Right where Camp David is now.
Q: Yes sir, and Camp David, for maybe someone out there – that’s where the president has his other facility. The alternate White House, so to speak.
A: I think that was named after President Eisenhower’s grandson.
Q: Is that right?
A: Yeah, I think he gave that to the government.
Q: Yeah? That’s amazing. I had not heard who it was named after. That’s a good story. Well, when did you first start thinking about coming into the military, since you really . . .
A: Well, in 1940 I was working in York, Pennsylvania to become a manager of a five and ten cent store, the old McCrory stores. And, ah, the draft starting getting close to me, so I thought I’d rather go in the service and kind of have a choice as to the selection where I wanted to go. So, ah, I enlisted in the service on October 7, 1940 [sic].
Q: So you were in a about a little over a year before Pearl Harbor. Well, how did Pearl Harbor, ah . . .
A: Two months to the day.
Q: Is that right?
A: Yeah.
Q: And how did Pearl Harbor hit you as far as the news?
A: Well, it scared me to death because, you see, I was a young, ah, ah, I guess you would call it army man back in those days – it was army air corps. And I was in Wichita Falls at that time. I was selected as one of the first people to go to Shepherd Air Force Base when it first opened to an A&E – aircraft and engine mechanic – school.
Q: So you remember just about where you were when the news hit you that Pearl Harbor had been attacked.
A: It was on a Sunday and I was going to see my girlfriend. They happened to let us off on Saturdays and Sundays there, and, ah, I was going to see my lady friend and I heard it over the radio that, ah, war had been declared.
Q: Did you immediately see things change in your environment around you – that we were suddenly – war had been declared and, and gas prices went up or things like that. What did you see?
A: As a military man drawing $21 a month at that time (laughing), I didn’t see much about the prices of anything!
Q: Well, that’s a tremendous story.
A: But it was quite shocking to all of us and they did cut our training a little short so they could get us on out into the field.
Q: OK, there were other men out there in the military. Were they – how did they feel about – your counterparts in the military – were they excited about going, concerned about it, ready to get into it? How did they feel about it?
A: I think the general feelings was – most people – “let’s fight,” you know, “let’s get at it.”
Q: Yeah, yeah.
A: They had a good attitude in those days compared to what a lot of it is nowadays.
Q: So you were in – so you were in the army air corps. You might want to kind of explain, you know, what the army was and the army air corps as a separate corps within the army.
A: At that particular time there was no air force as such as we know it today. Ah, it was the old army air corps. And I happened to be in the aviation end of it. Therefore, in 1948 when they, ah, changed over to the air force, I happened to be with maintenance so they sent me along to the air force. And I didn’t have to – no longer belonged to the army air corps.
Q: Right. So whenever you went to, ah, when you went through basic training, did you go through basic training just as an army guy?
A: Ah, no, I don’t. Well, I guess it was considered army, sure. Because you had to have your training. I was in Camp Mead, Maryland at that time.
Q: OK, so that’s where you went through – you were initially inducted into Maryland, then you went down to Shepherd or. . .
A: Shepherd Air Force Base when it first opened in . . .
Q: Well, that’s amazing. That’s quite a story, then. So you were just right down the road from us in – right on the other side of the river.
A: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to go down there quite often. My wife was from Wichita Falls.
Q: Well, tell me about your family. How were they – were they very concerned about, ah, . . .
A: You mean my mother and father?
Q: Yes sir. Whenever they were going to war and here they’ve got their son and do you have other brothers and sisters that were in the military at that time?
A: Two brothers was in the army and I had a brother-in-law that was in the army over in Germany. He was a prisoner of war for a long time.
Q: I’ll be darned.
A: And, ah, I had a sister and two other brothers.
Q: So they were – so they were – were any of them caught up in the military about that same time that you came in?
A: My brother a year and a half younger was, but my – I have a brother that was 13 years younger than myself, so he never went in until after the war, but he went in the navy.
Q: Yeah.
A: He stayed in the navy. But neither one of them stayed like I did to retire.
Q: OK, so had – you mentioned you had a lady friend there in Wichita and that was who you were with when you found – when you heard about the . . .
A: That’s right. When I heard about the war. . .
Q: And then you mentioned your wife was from Wichita. Same one?
A: That’s the same lady.
Q: That’s pretty program, then. I like that idea! So she was with you – or maybe not with you in the car, but she was, ah, part of your life when the war started. And how did she take all this, knowing that you were a military man?
A: She was kind of nervous about it also, but see, we were both young. And, ah, I was twenty-something and she was only 17 or 18 at that time.
Q: Yeah.
A: And, ah, it was quite shocking – hello, are you still there?
Q: Yes sir, I’m still here.
A: Everything got so quiet, I thought we’d dropped. . .
Q: No, no sir, I’m just listening to this magnificent story, because I mean – I have – it’s kind of flashbacks of talking to my own father, because, you know, the same time you were. In fact, he was in the army air corps just like you were. . .
A: You had told me that before.
Q: Yes sir. Yes sir. And I mean some of these stories are very close and dear to my heart today. I remember my dad talking about the same thing. OK, so you – you kind of – so now the war’s going on, so kind of take me through 1941, December 7, and what happened over the next four or five years until you ended up, ah, let’s say just after the war, and then we’ll talk about the rest of your career.
A: OK, then, ah, after I left the Shepherd Air Force Base I was sent to, ah, a B-17 school up in, ah, Washington. So I went through a B-17 school there and I was supposed to be with a B-17 squadron. And I was sent to Granada Field in New Hampshire – Manchester, New Hampshire, and I was with the dive bombers – A-20s and BB-7s. And we finally moved from there to Dover, Delaware, which is quite a base now, but it was nothing but a corn field when we moved in there with, ah, we lived there in tents. We didn’t have any showers. They’d take us once a week down to the armory, ah, to get a shower and get cleaned up. And, ah, we operated out of there for a while and then I was selected to leave there, and I went to Langley Air Force Base, or Langley Field, Virginia, at that time, and I started to flying sub-patrol down in the Caribbean with B-18s. And, ah, it might be interesting to know that, ah, we had the first radar that the – well, the army air corps – had at that time. We had the first radar in the service. And we used it on bombing subs down in the Caribbean.
And then later on I got – received a B-17s and B-24s. And I flew as an engineer on those and as a line chief, and, ah, I was an instructor – an engineer instructor – on the B-17s and B-24s, because we had them all in the same squadron at that time. It was a sea search organization.
So then, later on after the war was over, ah, I went to, ah, well, I was sent to Germany on the Berlin Airlift. Of course, you didn’t want to know about that yet, I guess.
Q: Well, I’ll tell you what, we’ll come back to that because that’s – the Berlin Airlift is an amazing story, and I don’t think a lot of people have a great appreciation for what – what Berlin was all about.
A: Right.
Q: So you, ah, you managed to get some combat time in both the C-17, or, ah, C-17 – that’s one of Boeing’s airplanes – of course, the B-17 is also.
A: Yeah, yeah.
Q: And the, and the B-24.
A: B-24 Liberator bomber.
Q: That’s an amazing story about the radar. I hadn’t realized that.
A: Yeah, well, as a matter of fact, I was – when I was at Langley Field, Virginia, at that time, they had a big balloon – lighter than air balloon hangar there.
Q: Yeah?
A: And, ah, I was with one of the first, ah, absolute altimeters that they came out with. We used to fly toward that balloon hangar and it would range as soon as you hit . . . . (plane going over interferes with conversation). . . that’s the way they worked out all the gymnastics on that, ah, ah, equipment.
Q: Did you know that Langley Air Force Base – that area where that balloon hangar is – was still called the “lighter than air” area?
A: Oh, is it? I didn’t know that.
Q: Yes sir. It’s – there’s three areas there at Langley – I was stationed there a couple of times. It’s called the, ah, “lighter than air” area, then there’s one area that’s called the “shell bank” area and that wasn’t even there when you were there. It was a – they dredged up a lot of shell from, ah, the bottom of that inlet there – Little Back River – and built another part of the base and did a landfill on it and then there’s the main base which was probably – a lot of those runways were just grass when you were there.
A: Yeah. Well, you see, I lived – I lived right close to the balloon hangar on the base.
Q: Yeah, yeah.
A: Had a two-story four-bedroom home.
Q: Sir, those houses are still there.
A: Yeah, I guess they are.
Q: They were built back in the 1930s. They’re still there.
A: They were real nice. They were duplexes.
Q: Yes sir. You ought to go back there and see them. I bet you could find – well, I know you could find your old house.
A: Oh, yeah, I could.
Q: So from the time you, ah, from 19 – from December 1941 you – and when the war was declared, how long did it take you before you were operational and going and flying missions?
A: Oh, ah, I would say within the year, something a little over a year, maybe, or so.
Q: So that’s not untypical what it is now from the time a person goes into training, it takes them about a year to get through pilot training or engineering. . .
A: Well, you see, guys like myself – I guess somebody could see something in me that, you know, that I was a go-getter and could do the job and hold it up, because I went right up to master sergeant in the first of May of ’43.
Q: Wow!
A: Back in those days if you didn’t cut the mustard, well, they took it back from you. But I held mine all, ah, for 16 years before they came out with E-8s and E-9s.
Q: Right. So that takes about 15 years, now, to make master sergeant. . .
A: Yeah, well, you see they was building these big bomb squadrons at that time and if you had any potential at all they would promote you right up the line to get you in the position so you could be a flight chief or a line chief or whatever they needed.
Q: Yeah, I should have asked you before – when we first started – was what was your educational background when you came in the military?
A: I had high school.
Q: OK, so you had high school. And, ah, and, and, later on – but you just developed that leadership skill once you got in the military and then, ah. . . .
A: Yes, and I – I had maintenance officer’s courses and I took all the SAC [Strategic Air Command] things.
Q: Right. Right.
A: Quite an education in the air force.
Q: So, now, when did you get married?
A: I got married in January of 1943.
Q: OK, so you got married right in the middle of the war and your bride had to follow you around and, ah. . .
A: And about two years later had a son.
Q: That’s outstanding!
A: He’ll be 60 the 29th of this month.
Q: That is outstanding, sir, that’s wonderful. OK, let’s, ah, so now the war’s over and they’ve sent you off to Europe. Tell me about the Berlin Airlift.
A: First of all, after the war was over I volunteered to go overseas, and, ah, they asked me where I wanted to go, so I decided I wanted to go to the Caribbean. I went down to, ah, ah, it was called Brinkman Field at that time, um, it is now – well, I don’t know what you call it – I think they’ve closed it now – Ramey Air Force Base.
Q: Ah, yes sir, I believe that was. . .
A: We had, ah, C-47s at that time and we flew all down through South America and the islands, you know, distributing things to them.
Q: Yes sir, it was in Puerto Rico and it is closed now.
A: Then we finally got C-54s and we flew quite a while down through South America and around. I was flying as engineer, but I also was a line chief of the organization. Then, ah, the Berlin Airlift started and we had to get the aircraft ready and we left and went over – this was in ’48. (Excuse me) And we went on the Berlin Airlift and I flew that until I was due for discharge. And, ah, they sent me back to Ramey, ah, where I had to pick up my family and they put us on a boat and sent us back to the states. And I flew the Airlift for quite sometime.
Q: Yeah? Well, now, so you got – you were in Germany in 1948, then, is that what you said?
A: Yes.
Q: So it was only about three years after the war was over. . .
A: That’s right.
Q: Tell, what was – obviously you’re seeing a lot of what’s going on in Iraq now and that war, you know, the official combat part of it’s been over, you know, less than two years. . .
A: Yes.
Q: Compare post-war Germany to what we see everyday on post-war Iraq. Can you – can you kind of make a comparison there for us?
A: Well, I – I don’t know there was – see, when I got over there after the war in ’48, there was still a lot of devastation there that people were practically starving and in the wintertime they were running around with these little shorts on and barely had shoes on and there was a lot of rubble still laying out in the streets. It was a different war altogether than we’re having nowadays.
Q: Right.
A: A lot different.
Q: Yeah, but the point is that even a couple of years after the war was over in Germany, there was still a lot of heartache and rough times in Germany and rebuilding Germany didn’t happen overnight.
A: Oh, yes, yes. See, like when we were flying in on the airlift, they had women out there helping to build runways.
Q: Yep.
A: The women worked just like the men did.
Q: Yep.
A: I felt sorry for those people when I’d go downtown looking around at the devastation and everything. . .
Q: Yeah.
A: It was terrible. War’s not a nice thing.
Q: Have you been back to Germany since you left there?
A: No, I never went back.
Q: I had a chance to go behind the Iron Curtain. . .
A: Did you?
Q: And, ah, into East Berlin, and, ah, of course, East Berlin is a much different city as you well recognize from West Berlin. East Berlin is a very communist block-looking city, whereas West Berlin is a very, very modern – just like New York City.
A: Oh, yes.
Q: And in the middle of West Berlin they’ve got the old church, ah, that was still – one of the last, ah, remnants of the bombing and the rubble – this old church burned out right there in the middle of Berlin.
A: Isn’t that something!
Q: And the most devastating part of Berlin – of West Berlin – is along the Berlin Wall on the western side. They just left all the buildings all torn up so as you stand there at that wall you can look up and see, you know, how bad the destruction was.
A: Oh yeah.
Q: And then, of course, I was in Germany when the wall came down and got to go back again . . .
A: Great!
Q: . . . into Berlin when it was a, you know, just Berlin – not East Berlin, not West Berlin, but just Berlin. Ah, so that – that – the thing that was accomplished by the Berlin Airlift – and people don’t appreciate the fact that – that – that we ultimately won the Cold War. . .
A: Oh, yes.
Q: Ah, and the first successful engagement, which we won, of the Cold War, was the Berlin Airlift.
A: Oh, yes.
Q: And that was an air power thing and you were part of that part of history also.
A: That was a scary thing, you know, with those buildings – we used to have fly up between those buildings that were bombed out and there’d be big jagged parts of them sticking up, you know, that hadn’t fallen. . .
Q: Yes sir.
A: . . . and it was – it was kid of scary, especially in some of that bad weather we had over there.
Q: And what air field did you fly into?
A: Tempelhof.
Q: Tempelhof – still there. You know, Tempelhof is now open as a – as the capitol’s air field because Berlin is now the capitol.
A: Oh, yes.
Q: What did you fly out of?
A: Well, we were – well, we were flying out of Frankfurt, Germany.
Q: Yep, yep. Have you – right there right beside the runway in Frankfurt there is a big monument to the Berlin Airlift.
A: Oh, I didn’t know . . .
Q: Which you probably have never seen.
A: Ah-huh.
Q: And it shows – it has three – it shows the three corridors going into Berlin. . .
A: Yes.
Q: And that’s a big monument to those corridors. Well, that’s amazing. I’ve flown in and out of Frankfurt a number of times.
A: (garbled)
Q: And thought about what it was like to fly . . . do you remember stories about the candy bombers and the . . .
A: Oh, yes. Ah-huh.
Q: Can you kind of share what you know about that.
A: I don’t – I just vaguely remember it. I don’t know anything about it. Never was involved with it or anything.
Q: Yeah, the story I’d always heard was there was a group of pilots that would buy handkerchiefs and fill them up with candy and tie knots in them and there were a group of kids that would hang around the end of the runways and if they flew over they would drop them out the window. . .
A: They’d drop them. . .
Q: To these. . .
A: That’s right. . .
Q: . . .so these kids would catch them and have their little handkerchief full of candy that the American crew members had bought. OK, so the Airlift. . .
A: When – when I was in Frankfurt, these, ah, little kids used to come up – we had like a wire fence (excuse me, clearing his throat) – had like a wire fence that went around our barracks that we stayed in. They were regular old barracks. And we would get candy from the BX or PX – whatever they called them back in those days, and we’d give it to these kids through the fence. And because – a lot of those children were practically starving. It was a terrible situation.
Q: Well, it’s a good thing once again, you know, the Americans come to the rescue there . . .
A: Yeah.
Q: And helped out another nation that’s, ah, you know, fighting for it’s liberty, or now has been liberated.
A: Yeah.
Q: And Germany is an amazing place now. And we always used to say if it was a state in the United States it would be where everybody would want to live.
A: You know, isn’t that funny? Every time we win a war, then we build them up – better than we are!
Q: I know it. I know it. That’s one of the best things. . .
A: Japanese . . .
Q: You get in a war with the United States and lose is always a good proposition.
A: Yeah.
Q: So now, the Berlin Airlift is over and now it’s about ’48 – about ’49 now, and what are you going to do next in your military career?
A: I came back to the states for a while and then it wasn’t long till the, ah, war started over – I was with the C-119s. We received new C-119s at Stewart Air Force Base in Tennessee and, ah, we hadn’t even – you know, we hadn’t really had a chance to really check these aircraft out. (I’ve got a frog in my throat.) But anyway, we – we got orders and we had to go over to Korea. Of course, we went to Japan and flew out of Japan into Korea. And we had all kinds of trouble with those C-119s with the tails breaking off and the props falling apart and losing airplanes here and there and one things and another. And, of course, we made – I was over there 2-1/2 years on that. I went over for 45 days TDY, and I was gone 2-1/2 years because they kept extending us and then they made it permanent more or less and finally – it took a long time to get home.
Q: Now where were you at, then?
A: I was in Japan – Yoshida, Japan, and Tamaki, which was in Nagoia.
Q: OK, and your wife is where?
A: She was in Tenn – she stayed in Tennessee.
Q: So you pack up for 45 days and you’re gone for 2-1/2 years?
A: Two and a half years, yeah.
Q: I’ll be darned.
A: When my son first started going to school and everything – I missed that.
Q: Yeah, I’ll be darned. So, and, of course, now did you get to come back to the states at all in that 2-1/2 years?
A: Never, hah-uh.
Q: Golly Moses, I tell you what – what a wonderful bride.
A: I was dropping paratroopers and one time the, ah, the Marines got hemmed in and we dropped a bridge to them where they had to assemble it so they could back out, you know, the Chinese had them surrounded.
Q: Yeah.
A: And, ah, we had quite a – quite a problem.
Q: Yeah, there’s probably people that will be listening to this someday that don’t know what a C-119 is, so can you kind of . . .
A: That’s the plane that we called the flying boxcars.
Q: Two big old booms on the back, and, in fact, they even made into Vietnam. So now you’ve been in World War II and now the Korean War. You know, we’ve seen so much about how the troops came home. Were you ever involved in some of these big celebrations after World War II or after the Korean War when the troops come home. . .
A: No, never. I was always too busy.
Q: Yeah.
A: (laughing) I couldn’t get involved.
Q: Yeah, so the big parades – the tickertape parades – you missed all that, huh?
A: All that – that’s right.
Q: Have you – do you still stay in contact with any of the guys you flew with in World War II? Or the Airlift guys? Or Korea?
A: They’re all gone.
Q: Is that right?
A: I’ve lived longer than most of them. . .
Q: Well, sir, that’s pretty darn important – this tape is going to mean something to somebody when they hear those words.
A: You know, you meet so many people in the service, you just – you can’t keep up with all of them.
Q: Oh, I understand completely.
A: And then sometimes you’re only with them a year or two years or something like that, you know, and then they’re either gone or you’re gone and it makes a lot of difference.
Q: OK, so now it’s about 1954. The Korean War’s over, so take me on.
A: Well, then I went to Dover Air Force Base and I was working with the C-133s and, and, ah 124s – they called them the old shaky – and we were flying all over the country – everyplace, you know, overseas and around. And then eventually I left there and went to Goose Bay Labrador and I was up there awhile. And then I got a transfer to Chatauroux, France. And this was when the Vietnam War was going on. So, ah, I was over there supporting all the aircraft that came – I was the line chief of the organization that supported all the aircraft that came through there. They’d stop there for maintenance and this and that and one or the other thing and stick over night or so and then they would go on down into the Congo and different places they had to go. So I was in support of that. I was never involved in that particular war.
Q: Yeah. But you’d been involved in quite a few military operations. So now, it must be, what, about the early 60s?
A: Oh, I did forget to tell you one thing. When I came back from, ah, Korea, I went to White Sands – or not White Sands, but Alamogordo, New Mexico. . .
Q: Yes sir.
A: And I was stationed there, and, ah, with ARDC – Air Research and Development – and that was quite an experience being with them.
Q: And what did you do there?
A: I was the line chief of all the different aircraft that you had cut out for different missions. I – we had, say, ah, a B-29 that we set up for the Martin bomb – that Glen L. Martin built – and each aircraft had a specific mission that it had to perform. And we had a B-17, for example, that was one that we would send out, ah, it was remote controlled. We’d fly it out and then they would use these missiles and build a little error in them so they were going by the airplane – from ground to air – and they were heat seeking, then it would turn around and come back and go right through the aircraft. And then we’d bring it down and drag it back in out of the desert and fix it up and shoot it down again – it was quite something! And we had a lot of drone aircraft that we flew out there, too.
Q: Yeah. For what – some people may not realize that that area down there – you mentioned Alamogordo – that’s the air force base and that’s the little town in New Mexico – it’s right next to where the White Sands Missile Range is and they still do a lot of very . . .
A: They used to close that road off. If you tried to go down there toward Los Cruces. . .
Q: Yes sir.
A: They’d close the road off until they fired the missiles. . .
Q: I’m very . . .
A: A lot of the missiles go right across the highway.
Q: A lot of that still takes place down there and it was just north of there was where the Trinity site was where we, ah, exploded the first atomic weapon.
A: That is exactly right.
Q: And Smokey the Bear came from there. . .
A: (garbled)
Q: Yeah, Smokey the Bear was up in Lincoln National Forest, which is just north of there, and just across the other side of the mountains, ah over by Roswell is where the aliens landed, remember, in 1947, supposedly. Well, that’s a magnificent story. So now it’s a – what? – middle 60s and you’re back flying. Now are you still flying out – now Dover is in Delaware, for somebody that may be listening to this later on.
A: I didn’t fly any more as an engineer. I was a line chief there.
Q: OK, so now, ah. . . .
A: Then I went to Goose Bay and then I went to France and that’s when I was, ah, ah, supporting the Vietnam situation.
Q: Right. Right. So now, take me – carry me on the rest of the way.
A: Then when I came back from there, let’s see, where did I go then? Ah, oh, then I came back to, ah, to Tinker Air Force Base.
Q: Right, so now we got you in Oklahoma.
A: Came here and, and, I stayed here – I was the line chief – or the maintenance superintendent because I made E-9 in the meantime. Ah, I was one of the first E-9s made in the air force. But anyway, when I came to Tinker they had a, a maintenance superintendent here but he got shipped out or something and I took his place. And I was the first maintenance superintendent on the C-141s when they came here. I was with MAC or MACS, as they call it.
Q: Right.
A: And, ah, we had the training organization here. So I was there for that for quite a while and then, because of my maintenance experience they, ah, put me in logistics and plans. And at that time we started planning for the C-5A aircraft. And, ah, I was the liaison officer between Tinker and the Pentagon. I would carry a lot of – everything was secret on that aircraft. And I would carry a lot of the document to the Pentagon and then I’d fly back. And, ah, I did that for a while. And, then they decided – we were preparing to put the aircraft here, so we had to have – you know, draw up the – everything for the facilities we might need for that size aircraft because it was huge. But the – I guess a lot of the people up in Washington got their heads together and decided to put it someplace else, which they did and they put it at Altus. And I was going to have to go to Altus and I had a young daughter still going to school here. So I said, you know, I was getting up in years in the service and I thought, well, I had to get out at 30 anyway, so I decided to go ahead and retire. So I retired at 27 years. And, ah, I didn’t regret that. I would have liked to see my 30, but I wasn’t going to Altus. I would have had maybe a year or so left, ah, you know, and I didn’t want to buy a home down there. So, and I didn’t want to take my daughter out of school, so I decided to go ahead and retire.
Q: Now when you were living here in Oklahoma, where were you living?
A: Ah, well, I lived on the base. And then I bought a home out in Del City – I had a new home built out there and lived there for awhile, then I moved to South Carolina for two years. My father was getting old and sick, but he lived in Maryland. But I moved to South Carolina and I worked there for Sears, and, ah, and he finally passed away and within two years I moved back here and I moved to the house where I’m living now.
Q: And you’re living here in Midwest City?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Well, I’ll be darned. There’s going to be a . . .
A: It’s right close to – if you’re familiar – I live, ah, right close to the – if you know where the hospital is. . .
Q: Yes sir.
A: Then south of the hospital is the Monroney Junior High School. . .
Q: Yes sir, my daughter went to school there.
A: Oh, did she?
Q: Yes sir.
A: OK, my daughter did, too!
Q: I’ll be darned!
A: But anyway, I live right down in back of that. I can go out my back gate into their tennis courts.
Q: Well, that’s great. That is great. So you’ve kind of seen Midwest City. . .so when was the first time you came to Midwest City – about what, ‘67 or ‘68?
A: No, ’63.
Q: ’63.
A: I retired here in ’67.
Q: Yeah.
A: I stayed four years with MACS and then I got out.
Q: So what do you think, we making good progress in Midwest City?
A: Oh, this place is really growing a lot!
Q: That’s great, that’s great.
A: I imagine you can see the streets they’re tearing up and how things are looking.
Q: Yep, yep.
A: Right outside the base, if you notice there on 29th street they – they cleared everything out there. They’re going to put a big shopping area in there and places to eat, I guess, and so forth.
Q: So how do you feel about your experience in World War II? Was it a good positive experience for you?
A: Well, I’ve always been a positive person, so I’d say yes. Yes, very positive.
Q: Well, I tell you, from just talking to you I certainly get that impression.
A: I’ve always been – even when things were real bad, I’ve always had something – I could look at things in a funny way of looking at things, you know.
Q: Yeah.
A: I wouldn’t let them bother me too much – no use – you can’t change it anyway.
Q: Yeah, that’s exactly right.
A: The thing is, you’ve got to watch your back, you know. You don’t want – you’re not dumb enough to walk out in front of a truck. . .
Q: A lot of pride in, ah, with you . . .
A: A lot of pride – and all my APRs – and I don’t like – sounds like I’m beating myself on the back, but all the officers that used to write up my APRs, they always talked about how immaculate I was. I was – I was really a good soldier. I always was really neat, you know, and took care of myself. Had a good clean uniform. Didn’t matter if it was fatigues or what it was. Even some of the generals used to talk to me and say, you know, because I was with some of those people from the time they were lieutenant colonels right up through generals.
Q: Yeah. Well, I told you what I did when I retired, didn’t I?
A: I don’t recall.
Q: I was one of those generals, remember?
A: Oh, yes, you told me you were a general, yes.
Q: And I, I was – I met a lot of chiefs just like you. In fact, in our first conversation I was telling you my dad was a chief and had had a very similar career to what you had and had been flight engineer on some of those things. Well, I tell you, sir, it has been absolutely magnificent talking to you.
A: It’s a pleasure talking to you, too, general.
Q: You know, and we’re so proud that we – we have people like you that are still with us today and can share these things with us and this is going to mean something to people in the future when they have an opportunity to listen to what . . .
A: I hope so.
Q: . . . what Jim Law had to say about his time in the military. . .
A: Well, if I’d thought about it I would have written a lot of this down so to keep it in sequence. But, you know, going that many years ago, that’s a long time.
Q: Well, I, I think what is going to be – one of the things I’m impressed with, you know, is here’s a guy that’s 85 years old, ah, and yet you sound like you’ve got tremendous faculties. You remember things that went on in great detail.
A: Oh, yes.
Q: And you’re still out mowing your grass! I think that’s . . .
A: As a matter of fact, I mowed mine yesterday. I always walk every morning first. Mowed mine yesterday. Came home and, ah, ah, then I washed a bunch of clothes and ironed a bunch of clothes and cleaned some of the house. Then today I went over to my lady friend’s and mowed her yard and had dinner with her and took care of that.
Q: Well, tell me sir, what’s the secret to your good health.
A: Oh, I guess I’m a dirty liver! No, general, I never did drink or smoke.
Q: Well, that’s. . . .
A: Now I do drink a little wine now. I drink about 4 or 5 ounces of wine everyday – red wine. And have been doing that for about 10 years now.
Q: Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you.
A: Not any medications.
Q: Yeah.
A: My eyes are good. I hear real well. I should have lost my hearing around those aircraft all those years. . .
Q: Yeah. Well, I lost a lot of mine.
A: Ah-huh.
Q: Well, sir, this has been an absolute pleasure. And I will get this form by and what I’d like to do is just bring it by because I’d like to meet you.
A: Well, you can either do that or if you don’t have the time, give me a call and I can come out to your office.
Q: Sir, that would be a real pleasure. I’d like to have you come out and I’ll walk you around and introduce you to some more old flyers around here.
A: That would be good. So when you get it all fixed up and you want me to sign it, well, just me a call and I’ll – I don’t mind you coming to my home – don’t misunderstand. . .
Q: Well. . . .
A: But it might be more convenient for you if I would come down there.
Q: Well, I’m taking off and going to St. Louis tomorrow and I’ll be back Friday night, but I plan on being in town all next week and I’ll get this tape and all turned in and we’ll get this all taken care of sir and then I’m going to try to go do another interview. This is such a pleasure that I want to try to do this some more with some other people.
A: And I appreciate you doing it.
Q: Well, thank you, sir, and this is . . .
A: Maybe someday someone will get after you for the same thing. . .
Q: Well, maybe so. Maybe so.
A: You’re experiences.
Q: But just imagine that someday someone will be listening to this tape and say, “Boy, they were a magnificent generation.” And now you get to hear it in their own words.
A: Yeah, that’s the best, really. Well, you know, a lot of people back in World War II they were really gung ho to really get with the program. But now a lot of these young people, they’re not. They want to go to Canada, you know, or someplace to evade it.
Q: Yes sir. I certainly saw some of that.
A: But we’re all unique and whatever a person feels the best for them, that’s the way it has to be, I suppose.
Q: Yes sir.
A: I mean I have no qualms about it, whatever they want to do, but I don’t think that they should let them off the hook – just bring them back and say, well you’re ok, we won’t slap your hands!
Q: Well, that’s a good message. Alright, sir, thank you very much and I’ll be in touch with you.
A: I appreciate it and just call me anytime you get the paperwork written up and we’ll make an appointment for a time that it would suit both of us where I can come down and sign it for you.
Q: That’d be just great and have a good evening and thanks again.
A: I will and I really appreciate your kindness.
Q: You bet, sir. Bye-bye.
A: Bye-bye.
