Philips, Grover
Grover Philips: World War II
Interviewed by Henry Laakman (Rotary Interview)
Interview date August 14, 2004
Q: Today we’re interviewing Grover Philips. And, Grover, I’m just going to go through the questions that they ask, but there’s going to be some places where I know I want to ad lib a little bit and ask you some things because. . .
A: OK.
Q: . . . I’m just real curious about, ah, I’ve heard your presentation, of course, about the battle of Leyte Gulf and. . .
A: Yeah. And there’s a new book out, you know?
Q: No, I didn’t know that.
A: ”The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.”
Q: (laughing) Really?
A: Yeah, and it’s – it’s awesome. It tells so much about the little part of that huge battle and what a last-gap stand it was.
Q: Yeah.
A: Just phenomenal.
Q: Yeah.
A: Well, go ahead.
Q: OK, well I’ll have to . . . OK, well, first of all it says when and where were you born?
A: I was born October 26, 1925, in Muskogee, Oklahoma.
Q: Muskogee, Oklahoma.
A: I’m an Okie from Muskogee.
Q: There you go! It says when did you first begin thinking that the US might get involved in World War II and did that occur after the attack on Pearl Harbor or did you think the US involvement in the war was inevitable prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor?
A: I thought it was inevitable. Several guys from McAlister, where I was at the time in high school, had already gone to the RCAF [Royal Canadian Air Force] because we weren’t in the fight. Some before that had even gone over – there were a couple of guys that even went over and fought in the Spanish, ah, Revolution.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: So, I suppose I had heard all of this conflict that was going on and when it started it was a continuation – we’re going to be in it. We’ve got to be in it. We were in it before.
Q: So what was your reaction and the reaction of your family and friends when Pearl Harbor was attacked?
A: Well, everybody – “the Japs sons-of-bitches” – of course.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: The immediate reaction was “what a terrible thing to do!” At that time we had no idea that the Japanese ambassadors were on their way to the White House to tell them they were going to declare war on us when the . . . you know, there’s some slippage there which we didn’t realize at the time. But we were incensed, everybody was, that they would do such a – pull such a dastardly trick. Although we all knew that we were involved in lend-lease.
Q: Right.
A: As far as the Axis was concerned – it wasn’t an Axis then, it was just Germany and Italy, I guess.
Q: So, were you already in the military in December of ’41?
A: No, I was a callow 16-year-old boy in December of ’41. We were having lunch at – my uncle Jess was the superintendent of the Stringtown Penitentiary and we were at his house for lunch that day. I don’t know the occasion – December the 7th – but my family’s always been close. And I was sitting in the living room and Dad and Uncle Jess were talking. And I wanted to listen to some music, of course, Hit Parade, probably on Sunday afternoon. And, ah, didn’t want to interfere with their . . . so I had to sit close and listen to a great big old radio. And the news came over and . . . so that must have been 1:30 – 2:00 our time when I heard it. And I said, “Dad, Dad, listen, listen.” And that was the first announcement that we had that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor.
Q: Was that a reporter or . . .
A: It was, ah, they broke into the music to announce that Pearl Harbor was, then, I guess, under attack.
Q: Under attack. Then it wasn’t the president speaking at that time?
A: No, no, no. That was Sunday afternoon, the day of the attack. And he didn’t speak until – I don’t think he spoke until he came before Congress the next Monday – or it may have been Tuesday before he actually made his speech – declaration of war. Ah, and, of course, we all listened to the radio then. We heard the speech and we read it in the newspapers so the – the – “Day that will live in infamy.”
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Immediately – he was good a turning a phrase – caught everybody’s imagination.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: But that wasn’t – what I’m talking about was the actual day of the attack . . .
Q: Yeah.
A: And the announcer broke into the music I was listening to. Probably “String of Pearls” or “Tuxedo Junction” or something like that.
Q: So, ah, were you drafted or did you enlist or how long was it before you were in the service?
A: Well, I – I was – I said 16 – I guess I was 15 – no, I would have been 16 in October that year. I was 16. Ah, I was in school the next year. I went to school at Durant. The university had a model training school and I went down there as a junior in high school. Stayed with uncle – another uncle – Uncle John – and went to Russell High Training School. They reduced the, the age at which you could volunteer for the army to age 18 and go into the paratroopers. They were looking for jump guys.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Our phys ed coach down in Durant had put up a tremendous commando training course – he’d built it – had it – we did all kinds of things. When I – before I – my birthday that year, I could climb hand-over-hand to the ceiling of that old-fashioned gym, which was about 75 feet in the air or something like that, turn around, you know, and climb back down. And run that commando course. I was in good physical condition. Several of us guys decided, well, let’s join the – let’s go to the air – become paratroopers. Well, I wrote dad a card. I didn’t call then. In those days you didn’t call except when somebody died.
Q: (laughing)
A: And I wrote dad and I said “I want to enlist in the paratroopers. I’m supposed to be 18, but if you and mother sign my papers, I can go in.” So he – he called. And he said, “Pack your clothes and come on home. . .” McAlister to Durant. . . “and we’ll talk about this.” He had a grocery store over on South Main in McAlister and so I went to the house, left my clothes, and went to the store, drove the car down there. And he said, “Let’s go get a cup of coffee and a piece of pie,” which was his favorite thing about two o’clock in the afternoon.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And we sat down and he said, “Now, your mother and I have talked about this a lot. There are men here who ought to be in the army who are not. Who are meeting farm requirements as deferments.” There were draft-dodgers then like there have been since the world began, I suppose. And he said, “Your mother and I could not stand to have you lie to send you overseas and get you killed with these guys sitting around here. You’re not 18, but we’ve discussed it and you can join the navy if you want to at 17 and we will sign your papers.” In the meantime. . .
Q: So they were saying you could join the navy, but not, not. . . .
A: Join the navy . . .
Q: . . .but not the paratroopers.
A: . . . they wouldn’t lie to get me enlisted. Seventeen was alright in the navy. They’d let me do that. He offered me thirty-five dollars a week to go to work in the store, which was like a fortune then. Ah, people can’t understand that now, but thirty-five dollars a week was a lot of money. I went to work. That was probably the first of November. Maybe the 15th. First or the 15th. But one of my fast, best running buddies in the world had a birthday December the 3rd and he was turning 17. Inevitably, we enlisted in the navy.
Q: Together.
A: Yeah. So I enlisted at the age of 17.
Q: 17. OK. Ah, so how did the other men in your area feel about serving in the military? You kind of talked about that.
A: Yeah. Ah, they were pretty patriotic bunch of people. Ah, my football coach, in ’41 – ’42, he left – the assistant football coach whom I admired a great deal – he enlisted in the navy and got him a commission as an ensign. And I thought, you know, I’ll be going with him. So I – it obviously was in my mind all along that I wanted to get in it and do our part.
Q: Grover, it doesn’t surprise me what you say about this part of the country, but back then were there other parts of the country where people were, I don’t know, less patriotic than, than, you know, the South, which has traditionally been patriotic?
A: I think, probably, there were. At first, even here, there were those who were – would do anything they could to stay out of the service. Ah, I’m kind of like Patton about that – they were cowards. But at any rate, they had, ah, here, although we were mixed, it was a thin mix. We – there was no great body of bund members, for instance. Back east they had the bund – the German bund was a big thing and they met and they talked about what was going on and didn’t like what they saw and so on and so forth. So I think there were areas where – everything was just comfy. They didn’t – there were those who were isolationists and didn’t want us involved in anything. They wanted us to stay completely out of it.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: So, yeah, it wasn’t – all the country wasn’t like the midlands, I think. The heart. . .
Q: Yeah. Yeah. OK, well, the next one – I think you already talked about this, but it says how did your family, wife, or girlfriend feel about going off to the war?
A: Didn’t have a girlfriend.
Q: So you already told about how your family felt. . .
A: Yeah.
Q: . . . yeah. And then the next question is in what branch of the military you served, so that was the navy.
A: Yeah.
Q: So, then, where did you go for basic training?
A: San Diego.
Q: So did you have to, like, report somewhere in Oklahoma City, and then. . .
A: Well, that’s another whole. . .
Q: And then how did you go from here to San Diego?
A: That’s a whole story in itself. I am going to write a book.
Q: Are you really?
A: Yeah. I had so many crazy things that’s happened. I think it would be funny. War is not all hell.
Q: No.
A: It’s hell. I was – enlisted at Dallas, Texas.
Q: Oh.
A: Because the draft here was full. Well, they rejected me here. And I went to Dallas to enlist. My left leg is shorter than my right one by an inch and a half. I didn’t know it. I thought I was – mother says I was perfect until I joined the navy.
Q: (laughing)
A: But, in a nutshell, the doctor said I had a limited reflex in my right knee and I couldn’t do the deep-knee squats. Well, when you look at my legs, it’s shorter!
Q: Ah-huh.
A: I didn’t know it. I didn’t even know it then. And that chief at McAlister said “All your records will come back here and go to Dallas and be enlisted.” I went back and gave him hell. My buddy went on. He went to Great Lakes. I said that little scrawny dried up twig kept me and here I am and he said (garbled) they’re crazy. Well, and some other things transpired and then finally I was sworn in. [phone rings in background and tape is stopped.]
So I went to Dallas and they said – sent me a card and told me when – had a – was available. I went down there and was sworn in and sitting out – I’d been home – I’d left home three times for the navy. And they – chief walks – somebody announces “Any of you men want 30 days’ delay in departure? You can go home for 30 days.” I’ve already said good-by three times! The chief walked up to me and he says “Stand up, sailor.” I was 6 foot – 5’11” then – I grew after that. And he said “I’m putting you in charge of a draft of 35 men for San Diego, California.” I said, “Me? You’re putting me in charge?” He said “I think you can handle it.” I was big. And so I took a draft of 35 men by train. We had our own car. All the way through San Antonio, Texas all the way to Los Angeles, changed cars and then went down to San Diego and reported for enlistment.
Q: Now what time of the year was this?
A: It was February.
Q: February. And so how long did a train ride from Dallas to San Diego. . .
A: Oh, we were . . .
Q: How long did that take?
A: Three or four days. We were probably, as I recall, we were three days into Los Angeles – three days and nights into Los Angeles. And then we, ah, we had another day getting on down to San Diego because they stopped at every. . .
Q: Yeah.
A: . . . you know, every town they came through. So I’d say we were four days making the trip.
Q: To get there? OK, and then, so, what was your training like? You know, was that the first time that you had had met men from other parts of the country?
A: Oh yeah. Yes, it was. Ah, I knew all kinds of people in McAlister. McAlister was, in the early days of this state, a crossroads. It was – people from Dallas came there to shop.
Q: Huh.
A: Because of the coal and the crossroads of the railroad. It was a big community. Well, there was a good mix of people. Jewish. I dated Jewish girls – didn’t know they were Jewish. Didn’t know what the Jew was. They were girls in high school. Polish. Italian. Had a large Italian settlement – still there today. Krebs.
Q: Krebs, yeah.
A: Got a reputation. So, I admit those kind of people. But people from other parts of the United States – I don’t know much about them. The guys from Brooklyn and the Bronx – they were the foulest mouth people I ever met in my life!
Q: (laughing) Still are!
A: Yeah, still are, absolutely! My grandsons attended a ball game up in . . they said “Those people are foul! On the street . . . (garbled) everywhere! The girls, too!” They were astonished. But I’d never heard a lot of the profanity in my life that I heard in that . . .
Q: And this wasn’t from the drill instructors!
A: No, it was from the boots. The guys from Brooklyn and the Bronx. And, ah, we had some from Chicago. Which was kind of strange. They had a boot camp in Chicago, they sent him down here. Depends on when they – we went to book camp for – we had a 12 week boot camp, even though they were using a lot of men. Ah, and at night, you’d hear [sobbing] – these guys crying themselves to sleep. I never did. In boot camp I just went sailing right through it.
Q: So being in shape. . .
A: Being in shape had a lot to do with it.
Q: . . .had a lot to do with it, didn’t it?
A: And a grocery merchant. From the time I got through with running that commando course I was in a grocery store working hard. It was tough work. We carried groceries a block and a half to the – to the wagon yard in those days. So, you know, you hustled. You worked hard. Yeah, I didn’t – that part didn’t bother me. Getting out of bed did, but that’s another story!
Q: So now did you have, like in the navy, did you have marksmanship training and, you know, any of that kind of thing?
A: No. The things that we did that were unique, I think, ah, or occur to me as being unique – we spent one day filling sandbags and making slit trenches. Just, I guess, to get the feel of it. One day they said we were going to go on a – and we trained with rifles, manual of arms, all that stuff, marched with them, drilled with them just like they were real guns. They were fake guns, but we drilled with them. Ah, one day they said we were going to go on a 25-miles hike and so we fell out that morning in our dungarees with leggings, a field pack, two blankets, a poncho, canteen of water, web belt, bayonet, and honest-to-God rifle which was heavier than the one we’d been practicing with, and we marched 15 miles through the hills up the coast. Ten miles up the coast but it took us 15 miles to get to Oceanside where there was a 40 millimeter training school. We marched up to it and opened our rations and had lunch there and it was a sandwich and an apple, maybe a candy bar, but I’m not sure about that. I remember the apple and the sandwich. And our canteen of water. Weren’t to have anything else. Got to fire 40 millimeter anti-aircraft gun because the class was in session and they let us participate. And then we – soon as we did that, we took off. We marched 5 miles on the beach down to Oceanside to Mission Beach. Ocean Beach was 10 miles. Mission Beach was 5 miles. We marched to Mission Beach 5 miles to go take our swimming test. We had to learn to swim. And we did that at Mission Beach and we marched up there almost every week until we took our test – final exam. But anyhow, we marched on the beach – and that’s tough marching in sand with a full load. And at Mission Beach we jumped back on the road and marched in formation all the way back to San Diego. And we made it in good style. Ah, there were – I bet you that our of a company of men – 160 men – I’ll bet you there weren’t 10 guys that fell out. . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: . . .until, till the very last, we got in, ah, got back and our chief got mad at us. We had a chief athletics officer for a boot chief and we were grab-assing or sky-larking or something in the ranks as we marched around this gridiron where we trained daily, and he decided we ought to make another round or two. And I’ll bet you half of the guys that fell out fell out then. And he stood and watched and he got his ass chewed out, too! (laughing) He stood down there and – if he’d have gone with us he’d have been alright, but he stood and watched us.
Q: Yeah, yeah.
A: But I was really pleased with that.
Q: Yeah, so where did you go, then, after basic training?
A: Well, ah, I went to Memphis, Tennessee. In the test that they gave all of us, of course, there was two or three hundred of us in a big room. They give us all kinds of test. Aptitude tests, intelligence tests, everything. In the process, there was a blinking light down at the end, and I could discern that light and could hear it, too. So when the tests were analyzed we went in for assignment, this guy says “What do you want to do?” I said “I want to go into the armed guard.” The armed guard were the guys who manned the guns on the freighters and then – we’d seen and heard about the Germans shooting our guys and sinking the freighters and, ah, that’s where they need me – I can handle that. Well, he says “Wouldn’t you rather fly? We’ve got all the armed guard we need, you know, anybody can do that. You’ve got an aptitude for radio. How’d you like to fly?” I said, “Oh, I’d love – I’ve love to fly. I never dreamed I’d get to do anything like. . . “ And I was sent to Memphis, Tennessee to the Naval Air Technical Training Center at Billington, as an aviation radio trainee. Graduated from there, and that was a – that was a 12 week school, and then that was followed by two weeks of radar training. Radar, of course everybody’s so blasé about it today. . . .
Q: Yeah, but that was new then.
A: It was new then. There was a 12 foot stockade fence and you’d come up to that and you couldn’t carry anything in there – no paper, no pencil – and they marched our squad in there, closed the gate behind us and opened the other gate for us to walk on into the compound, and they closed it and then they’d turn guard dogs loose in the area. And we got our radar training there – two weeks.
From there had to go to aerial gunnery school. I came out of aviation radio school a seaman first class. I had been a recruit seaman out of boot camp, a second class seaman out of aviation radio school, a seaman first class – aviation radio striker, they called it.
Q: Now just out of curiosity, how much did a seaman make? What was your pay in those days?
A: Forty-seven dollars a month, I think. At first, it was something like . . .
Q: And you were making thirty-five dollars a week working in the grocery . . .
A: A week working for dad, yeah. And it wasn’t uncommon because help was so hard to get. So many of the men who would work were gone - they had enlisted or been drafted – that dad was humping to get people to help him in the store that would work. And he had a pretty good hammer on me.
Q: (laughing)
A: So I worked – even if it’d been free, I’d have worked! But, yeah, I made, seems like right at first it was forty – in boot camp it wasn’t that much. But they gave us a raise along in there to about forty-five or fifty dollars a month and I think that’s what I got in aviation – as a graduate of aviation radio school. The aerial gunner school – all of this, by the way, was by train.
Q: Right.
A: I’ve been across this country by train so many times and I love it. It’s the only way in the world to travel. But you can’t do it. Somebody screwed up the passenger trains. Anyhow, by passenger train to Pensacola, Florida where we went through a 12 week school in aerial gunnery. Ah, it seemed like there were three weeks classroom and then we went to an island just off the coast for, I guess maybe it was just three weeks, of shooting.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And about four of us guys, or half-a-dozen of us, volunteered for kitchen duty and let our group go on and we stayed and worked in the kitchen for two weeks. That was two weeks out there – two weeks. So we got to eat good for two weeks. And then we joined the next class coming through, see. They just rotated. And we came on – we took our two weeks there.
You asked about boot camp. One day they put us on the busses and they took us up to Came Lejeune.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: To fire . . .
Q: Was that Marine even back then?
A: Marine, yeah. To fire our weapons and learn to shoot a gun. I couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle! I had fired a shotgun one time in my life. I sneaked a pistol out of renter’s room one time and fired it three or four times. It was a wonder I didn’t shoot myself! I couldn’t hit that sleeve! Some of the guys were good. Some of them made marksman, you know, just right off they were – and they got credit it for it when they shot good. I didn’t shoot good. We went to Memphis. They ran us through a program where we – the third week of school we did some trap shooting.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And it was just fun shooting a shotgun. You know, I was a little more comfortable with that. As a side note, our section chief, one guy was in charge of the section – ARC6H – AR6H – ah, he flunked that and then the tenth week of that school they kicked him out because he flunked that course in the third week and off he went to serve as a deck hand someplace. But I passed it well enough, apparently, to – I got to go on. And when I left that school off the coast of Pensacola we had a track – a railcar – that went around in a big circle and we had 10 low houses and 10 high houses. It wasn’t anything for me to hit 18 of them in a row. They made a gunner out of me. And I’ve retained a lot of that today. And I – we graduated and then we were assigned – I and 5 other fellow were assigned to a VC-10 – by train through Chicago across the Great Northwest to join our squadron out at Seattle, Washington.
Q: Huh. OK, so, then the next question was in what capacity did you serve? Your duty and the places in which you served and your rank?
A: Yeah, I was – after joining the squadron, we, I made aviation radioman third class. There were five of us that joined it at one time. We all got our ranks within a month of the joining the squadron. We joined the squadron about October 27 or 28 of ’43. And the squadron left for Brown Field in California in December. They Christmas-ed down there and we stayed and manned the base, a group of us, about thirty of us – I wasn’t put in charge this time. I screwed that one up – and manned the base. I ran the phone at the BOQ and waiting tables at the officer’s club and, ah, stood – we stood watch. Telephone watch and guard duty at the hangars and that kind of stuff because the squadron had gone – we had furnished that while we were there and then soon as two more squadrons came in they took over the duties and us 35 guys just hoofed it on down the coast by train to, ah, Reem Field which is south of North Island, San Diego just a hair on the coast. The squadron was still out at Brown Field. I’d never – we’d never even. . .
Q: So now what kind of aircraft were in this squadron?
A: It was a composite – the navy called it a composite squadron. VC-10: V – aviation, C – composite. Avenger torpedo planes. Grumman TBFs originally, and later changed to a TBM, which was – meant that the Ford Motor Company got the bid or something. Grumman made them originally and then the contract went to somebody else and they changed the code to TBM – Martin-Marietta – I don’t know. And FM2s. An FM2 is a scaled-down F6F. It’s a kind of a baby Wildcat. They were both – the Wildcat was designed to fly off these little Jeep carriers, which is were we were headed. We didn’t know it at the time, I didn’t. The skipper may have known. And the Grumman Avenger was a replacement for the one that we lost so many of when Torpedo Eight was shot up.
Q: So were these all – were these all carrier-type aircraft? Or were they. . .
A: Oh yeah.
Q: These were . . .
A: All carrier, yeah, yeah.
Q: So did you know at that time that you were going to be . . .
A: On a carrier?
Q: Serving on a carrier?
A: Oh, yeah.
Q: So, I mean, you knew that you were not going to be shore-based?
A: Yeah, we were going to be aircraft carrier people. And, ah, I didn’t know Jeep carrier. I thought carrier. Period. The composite part of it, I just thought “well, it’s a - we fly together.” Our fighter planes were assigned to protect us and we’d coordinate with – it was a small cohesive group. Now on the big carriers, they’d have a torpedo squadron with 30 planes in it. We had 30 total. Then they’d have 30 or 60 SBDs, then they’d have 30 or 60 fighters. They were each different, completely different squadrons. But in our case we were one squadron. With one of the officers in charge of the fighter division and one in charge of the torpedo bomber division. And the mindset, as you know, of a fighter pilot is totally different from that of a bomber pilot. It’s just . . .
Q: So now, in your training were you – I guess you worked on both of these.
A: I – yes. I serviced radios on both of – the equipment – radio and radar – on both planes. And I – it was necessary occasionally for me to fire up that little fighter plane and taxi up to a certain place so I could test the radio. And I loved doing that. I’d like to have done more than taxi one of them but couldn’t get that far. Ah, so I was familiar with the plane – both planes. I never taxied a torpedo bomber – them big . . .
Q: And these are all tail, ah . . .
A: Tail draggers?
Q: Tail wheel, right?
A: Tail wheel, yeah.
Q: Well, that’s a harder job.
A: You bet, that part would have daunted me considerably. But, ah, yeah, I worked on the radios on both planes. Was very familiar with all the equipment. It – now when we joined the squadron, us five guys didn’t get to fly. We were surplus. The pilots had already been – everybody already picked up sides. Each pilot had been assigned a gunner and a radioman and those were pretty much permanent throughout the life of the squadron. Even when it reformed after we got back to the states following the sinking of our ship, most of them were stuck right where they were. Ah, the – I got separated because of my wounds. But, ah, and some of the other guys – that sort of thing happened.
Q: Well, let’s get to that part because that . . .because the next question says that in terms of your own experience during World War II under what kind of conditions did you live and work and just elaborate on as many aspects of the food and clothing and so forth. But I guess, so when did you actually get assigned to a ship and when did you, well, deploy?
A: We were already assigned a ship, we just didn’t know it.
Q: Oh!
A: When the squadron all finally came together – the detached part of it and the main squadron – came together at a place called Ota Mesa, which is just north of the border to Tijuana. High up on the mesa. And we flew from there for a month or two. We practiced – (garbled) – I didn’t fly. Kept the radios going. Ah, but the guys that flew did all this training and had their own special training courses. They taught them a lot of things that I didn’t know. And, ah, one incident – we had a squadron party and they had all – ham and all kinds of fried chicken and everything – laid out the biggest feed I’d ever seen in my young life – out under the trees in a bull pasture out near Ota Mesa. And the officers played the enlisted men in softball. Mr. Holliman turned 21 that week and he was wearing a white on white dress shirt. I’d never seen a white on white dress shirt. And the officers got drunk enough they tore that shirt off of him.
Q: (laughing)
A: And I thought that was hilarious! He would – and of course, being such a small squadron and two enlisted men and one pilot in the torpedo planes – we were pretty much first name basis, although it was “Mr.” and so and so – we had good camaraderie. It was nice – a good thing about it. Ah, that was a great party and the next day, however, he gave us a liberty for the weekend, the skipper did, and the next day, ah, I happened to be at the office and that’s too long a story to tell, but, ah, and I heard him – he got called to the phone. And I could hear his side of the conversation and they wanted us to fly a training mission with a simulated landing on one of the little islands off the coast. They wanted our squadron to cover the landing as if we were – would do on a D-Day. And that’s another thing that kind of gets me, by the way – D-Day. Hell, there were D-Days everywhere. People don’t know what “D” stands for – disembarkation is what that means.
Anyhow, and he said, well, he was a West Point graduate and I think this was one of his classmates that had already made admiral – he was just a captain. He said, “I’ll tell you what, Jeff (or Jack or whatever his name was) you get my squadron back here – they’re all on liberty – you get them here, call me, I’ll come back and lead it. In the meantime, I’m gone.” And he hung up the phone and left. You know, and he headed back to Tijuana.
Q: (laughing)
A: Huxtable was his name, you know, and of course, I thought he was a giant. I didn’t think he could do anything wrong and I don’t guess he could.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Ah, but overseas at Pearl – on the way over to our first invasion, we picked up two new torpedo bomber pilots. And I don’t know how it fell out that – oh, I know. Of the five of us, two were taken off before we left San Diego. We had – we were only entitled to three crewmen backup. We were – we were there in case somebody got killed is what we were for – any of the squadron air radiomen. And sure enough, we picked up these two pilots at Pearl and they assigned me to one and Bill to the other one. Well, I – my – then I was scheduled to fly with Sroyer was his name – S- r - o - y - e – r. “Bug Eyes” was his nickname, had it written on his Mae West [life vest] – I didn’t call him Bug Eyes – Mr. Sroyer. The navy had a rule which said I couldn’t – he – pilot could not carry a crew until he had qualified by landing and taking off three times on that ship. They also had a rule which said a pilot could not qualify with a crewed – could not fly a crewed plane in a combat zone without a crew. And he couldn’t carry a crew till he qualified. We qualified D-Day at Saipan.
Q: (laughing)
A: I flew with him during Saipan. We made about 15 missions during that invasion starting D-Day and when they secured about a third of the island or half of the island or something like that we were withdrawn and, ah, they decided that – some guy that came aboard – the warrant officer decided he wanted to be a – have flight pay because it was pretty nice – fifty percent of your base pay. And so he put in for flight pay, changed his rank, and that meant somebody had to give up their flight pay. Well, there were two – and the chief photographer wanted to fly, you know, and so in order to do that, two of us had to give up our – the two most recent guys in the squad room were Bill and me, so we were kicked back to radio repair shack again. And we came back and started the invasion at Tiernan and the other radiomen began to carp about having to fly with these extra pilots. And we had some pilots that came aboard from the Fanshaw Bay when she was hit and so we had more than our regular complement. I wound up flying with Sroyer and Osterkorn and another pilot. I flew with three different pilots, at least, during the Tiernan invasion and then one day chief says, “Phillips, you’re not to fly anymore. They just found out you’ve been flying without flight pay.” I said, “Oh?” He said, “Back to the radio shack.” I said, “Yes sir! Whatever your say, chief.”
Q: (laughing)
A: So that’s what I did, I went back to the radio shack. Well, my job at the radio shack – the three of us that were there – we would greet the flights as the came in, ask the pilots – they knew what we were – they knew us – and I’d do this, and he’d say . . . and I’d hang around and find out what was wrong with his radio.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Or if he said OK, I was doing it for the next one that landed. And one day I was – the radioman – if there was a radioman that came out of the torpedo bomber, I’d get him right there at the door. This plane landed and taxied forward to the barriers. I popped open the door and the radioman stepped out and I said, “How’d it run?” He says, “Good, Grover” – “Phil,” rather, and I was looking back down the flight deck and here was a plane coming in about that much too high. And I said “Run! Look out, Billy!” – the radioman. And he turned and ran cross-ways. I turned around and ran forward to get away from the barriers. And that torpedo bomber’s Pratt-Whitney engine was still windmilling, and I grabbed hold of the wheel and just turned around and hunkered down behind the wheel because I figured that plane was coming right off through the barrier. Well, he veered a little to the right and crashed the island and the barriers. A rocket flew loose [claps his hands], hit Billy Ketchum in the leg and broke his leg. I got permanent flight status then!
Q: (laughing)
A: Billy was shipped to, ah, to a hospital in Espritos Santos and, ah, we got close enough once that my – that his pilot and gunner that I inherited – the three of us flew down there and got to go in and visit with him at the hospital. But I flew with that pilot for . . .
Q: So now, what ship – what was the name of your ship at this point?
A: The ship – well, I served on one at that point. That was the USS Gambier Bay.
Q: And this was a, you call it a . . .
A: A Jeep carrier.
Q: A Jeep carrier.
A: Baby flat-top, ah, Woolworth carrier, ah, I, ah, President Roosevelt called it a Woolworth carrier. Kaiser built freighters – ships – Kaiser Aluminum.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And he came up with the idea of installing a flight deck on these, ah, these freighter hulls and he could turn those freighter hulls out so fast it would make your head swim. They – we were CVE73, which means ours was the 73rd hull made . . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And that came – we christened – they christened that baby about November of ’43. So, when they began to produce them, they just produced them just quite fast. We were assigned that ship in rotation. It was just – it took a while for it to identify itself. But we went about the Gambier Bay and served in her until she was sunk.
Q: So what – tell me, what was the – I mean what were the conditions like on the ship?
A: Well, conditions were good. Well, they were – conditions were good. I’ve been on a destroyer. I know what good conditions are. We had ice cream. We had soda fountain. We had a laundry. We had fresh water, showered in fresh water all the time, drank fresh water. Big mess hall. Our rations were not the best, ah, we’d have fresh eggs until we were out of port a week or ten days and then we were out of eggs.
Q: (laughing)
A: We got powdered eggs from then on – they were no damn good!
Q: (laughing) Never have been!
A: And they’re still not! Ah, but we had – living was pretty good. Now, it got hot. When you get out in the South Pacific – they talk about over in Iraq how hot it gets, ah, I was reading, watching something on TV – they started flying these planes off the desert. The cowlings would be so hot you couldn’t service them without blistering your hands so they’d wait until dark till it cooled down at night to service them. Well, that – it was hot out in the South Pacific. The – the ward rooms – the officer’s quarters were air conditioned. Our – the air crewmen’s bunk room, I think, was air conditioned. But I wasn’t there, I was down below with the ship’s crew, down forward, because of the complement thing I’ve already explained. I wasn’t part of the – when we went aboard ship, I was transferred to the ship’s company. So I became ship’s company from the time we went aboard and while I was flying, I was flying TDY, I supposed. I was a loaner to the squadron.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: I don’t fully understand that. Never saw my orders. I just did what they told me. But, ah . . . (end of side A)
Alright. The squadron crewmen had a nice head, which I preferred to use to the ones we had down below. Ah, they were alright. Good hot and cold water, that part wasn’t bad.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Except that this big open thing and the commode was a – a trough with – 16 guys could sit on at one time. . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: And the high sea – that was a mess! But, ah, really, it was a pretty good life.
Q: Well, good. Now, did you have any contact with people back home? I mean, did you get mail on the ship, ah, fairly regularly?
A: We get mail from port to port. When we – when we – for instance, when we sailed up to Saipan we had had mail delivered just before we left – not Honolulu – not Hawaii, but we went by one of the islands which I could think of given the time – to take aboard additional supplies, refuel and get all ready for the invasion. We had a mail call there. Our mail was sent there for us, waiting for us. And we went ashore, got our mail – the mail guys did – and brought it back, so we had mail. And the mail that we had written during that time was delivered – was sent back home. We’d go to Saipan and Saipan lasted, ah, our part of it lasted 15 – 20 days, something like that – it was a fairly small island and they had it secured. We went back to the same island – I want to say Mannus, and that may not be right – refueled, rearmed, took aboard new armament, and got a mail call.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: So then, started back to Tiernan, the same thing. After Tiernan, we went back and rearmed again, and then we went to Guam, no, yeah, Guam, and then we rearmed and then we went to Angar and Ulithi, ah, Peleliu and Angar in the Ulithi Atolls . . .
Q: So this is getting close to the Leyte Gulf . . .
A: Getting ready, yeah, we were moving. . .
Q: Which is kind of next part where it wants us to talk about combat and, you know, combat experience.
A: And I flew – I flew missions at Saipan and Tiernan, Guam, Angar, Peleliu, and the Ulithi Atolls – there wasn’t anything there when we got to it. It had already pulled out. It wasn’t much – it became a tremendous harbor for our supply forces. They – we moved in there and it became a huge operation. But, ah, we didn’t do it. So then from Ulithi, we withdrew to Hollandia, New Guinea where we got ready for the jump into the Philippines. And joined up with the big battleships.
Q: Now, were you part of a task force at this time, Grover, or were you – was your ship pretty much, ah . . .
A: Ah, the theory was there were six Jeep carriers, each one with a squadron – (garbled) composite squadron like our own. Twelve torpedo bombers and 18 fighters is what we had. Thirty-plane complement. Ah, 6 of them – each ship had one 5-inch gun on the fantail. We had a screen of four destroyers and three destroyer escorts. The – so we were – sailed by ourselves, mostly. We were directed to join up for different points – at different points for different things. But we never traveled with the big boys except when we were going to the Philippines. That‘s the first time I ever remember embarking on an engagement where one of our pilots called in for an emergency landing. We had a new skipper aboard the ship and he said, “Helmsman, hard left rudder, bring her to 1-6-0. Radioman, call the flag and request permission to turn into the wind.”
Q: (laughing)
A: And – the Missouri – I didn’t know what had happened, but I was watching him because this was the first time I’d seen the Missouri up – in a squadron moving like that. All of a sudden that Missouri just kind of sunk in the water and began to lay some coal to it. They were getting out of his way, because we turned and we were headed for him.
Q: Hum.
A: So the Missouri turned out of our way so we could get in position to take aboard that plane. That didn’t happen with our previous skipper. That’s another story. But, ah, we traveled mostly by ourselves. And the ship, in it’s shakedown, went to Pearl carrying a load of planes and Marines – brand new planes – fighters and torpedo bombers – 60 or 70 of them – just as stuffed every nook and cranny of that ship – to Pearl Harbor without an escort, even.
Q: Huh.
A: Zig-zagging as she went.
Q: But when you joined up with this . . .
A: Well, I . . .
Q: . . . you knew you were . . .
A: Had a little protection.
Q: Yeah, but you knew you were getting ready to see combat. . .
A: Oh, yeah.
Q: . . . or see. . .
A: When we left Pearl, there wasn’t any question where we were going.
Q: So how long was it, then before the battle actually ensued?
A: Well, ah, of course, there were several battles over a period of time. We – the invasion – see, D-Day in Europe was June the 6th? Our D-Day at Saipan was June the 15th or 20th. Thirty-days later was D-Day at Tiernan. Thirty days later, maybe forty-five days later, so, let’s see, June, July, August, September – every month we had a D-Day or two, or we put – covered a landing force of Marines. We were mostly was Marines in those days. Then, from – when we rearmed at Hollandia and moved out with the battleships and stuff, we knew we were going to the Philippines. We were going to return and get MacArthur back in there. We were with the Seventh Fleet – assigned to the Seventh Fleet – as a task force 73.4.3. And our call was “Taffy 3.” Ah, so, we knew what we were going – now, we did the same thing we’d always done, except that this time we went with the main body of forces. Taffy 1, 2, and 3, plus, ah, Halsey’s Third Fleet was giving coverage support to that invasion, and he was up bombarding everything. They were bombing Manila and everything else – all the Philippines – till we got there and that was October – D-Day was, I think, the 20th of October.
Q: You’re birthday, huh?
A: Well, the 25th – the 26th was my birthday. Ah, but, D-Day was the 20th. I made about three bombing missions on Leyte in the rotation of things. Made a couple of anti-submarine patrols before – the battle that led to our sinking started on the night of the 25th about eleven o’clock. And that force was met by Admiral Olmandorf [sic] and the Missouri and the – all the battleships that had been saved from Pearl Harbor. And he sank a bunch of Japanese then. Two forces – two battle forces came up at him and crossed his “T,” which is when you’ve got your guys lines up like this and they’re all looking at you with their guns this way and you’re coming at them with your guns – you can only shoot what’s ahead of you. Well, they crossed his “T” and he sank tons of – that was midnight – eleven to two or three o’clock in the morning on the 25th. Admiral Kurita was a bigger battle force. He had – when he started he had five battleships including the Yamato and the Musushi – the Musashi – which were the biggest battleships the world has ever seen, each mounting eighteen-inch guns. Nobody else had anything bigger than a sixteen. Their – had the cruisers mounted sixteen inch guns – was what our battleships carried. He had five battleships, 10 cruisers, I think, when he first came into it, and, ah, probably twenty-four destroyers. And Halsey caught him out north of, ah, Leyte, in the Subian Sea, I think it’s called, but he had to fly over Luzon and Leyte to get to him. So it was strictly an air attack on battleships and cruisers. They sank the Musashi, the big battleship, which was Kurita’s flagship. He transferred his flag to a cruiser, picked him up out of the water to do it, and, ah, at sundown that float, that armada was seen steaming back west towards the China Sea. South China Sea.
And Bull Halsey, then, heard that the Japanese carriers were up north of him, which was part of the plan, by the way, and he knew there’s where the deadly force was, so he turned his group and took off after them. And sometime in the night, then, Kurita turned his force around and came right back where he was and steamed out into the Pacific through the San Bernardino straights. And fell upon Taffy 3, which my little carrier outfit, with, at that time, four destroyers and eight cruisers and about twelve or fourteen – four battleships, eight cruisers, twelve or fourteen destroyers. Ah, anyone of them had more firepower than we did – the bigger ships – the destroyers, of course – their destroyers were bigger than ours, for that matter. That came about at – just about sunup – our early morning anti-submarine patrol, one of the pilots from our flight – it wasn’t our ship – I think it was one of the Fanshaw Bay’s pilots – called in and said “I’ve got the whole damn Jap navy out here.” And the admiral says, “Count what you see. Are you sure those aren’t – that’s Bull Halsey – that’s the Third . . .” “No,” he said, “these are pagoda masks.” He said there was four battleships and eight cruisers and I don’t know how many destroyers. Well, it wasn’t – wasn’t long until he was under fire and shortly thereafter they began to shoot at us. Sixteen, eighteen, twenty miles away.
Q: Holy Mackerel!
A: And, ah, they continued that for about four hours. I’ve read different accounts of how long a time it was. And they – they detached. . . .
Q: Was this the first time your ship had ever actually come under direct attack?
A: Yeah, well, we weren’t supposed to be there. Our ship had hulls of about an eighth of an inch – didn’t have these – the battleships had armor-plated hulls . . .
Q: Yeah.
A: Our hulls were eighth – eighth of an inch thick. We weren’t ships of the line. That’s the first time, to my knowledge, that auxiliary ships like our carriers were ever engaged in a battle with ships of the line. We were not a ship of the line in the full sense of the word.
Q: Ah-huh. Ah-huh.
A: And our sinking was the first time a carrier was ever sunk in a surface engagement by enemy battleships and cruisers. But, and they threw some shells at us, they thought they were fighting heavy armament. They threw armor-piercing shells at us that just sailed right through our ships and exploded in the water almost harmlessly on the other side.
Q: So when you came under attack, did they, did they try to launch all the aircraft?
A: We – we launched the aircraft.
Q: So were you part of the launch?
A: No, I wasn’t. I was not supposed to fly that day, but we got off – we held back four torpedo bombers. I don’t – somebody – somebody decided – ship’s squadron or the admiral – each squadron would hold back four planes and load with torpedoes. Because we sent planes into the air – our skipper took off with nothing but 50 caliber machine guns in his wing and his – and his turret gunner and his tail – his radioman was shooting a 30 caliber under the tail. He didn’t have anything. But they got everything off but four planes and they loaded them with torpedoes. And we launched two of them. One of them we know – he never – he never did hardly get up above the water, he just turned, slipped a little on his left wing and opened his bomb bay and he was in a torpedo (garbled) because they were that close. And he launched a torpedo that struck one of the cruisers and he was never seen again. He never – we don’t know if he blew up and exploded or whether he got over and they shot him down, but we only got two of those planes in the air.
The third one was still on – in the catapult ready to be launched when they knocked out the catapult. It was compressed air catapult and didn’t have enough – couldn’t get enough charge, so they just gave him what they had to get him off the ship because he was dangerous with that torpedo in him. The other one blew up from the hanger deck, ah, the hanger – the elevator, forward elevator, was down intending to take him to the flight deck and it was hit. One of the guys says he was standing on the hanger deck and it blew him and when he came to he was sitting on the edge of that elevator on the flight deck, which I can believe – it does crazy things.
Well, those – when those four planes were left there were seven crews left. So us three guys – us three radiomen – our pilots were now surplus to the number of planes we had. That’s the way they rotated a little bit to give somebody some rest. So the seven guys drew straws to see who got to fly. And we didn’t get – we were not lucky enough to get a short straw. So we were there bound to be aboard ship, ah, which is where I was. When I was wounded I was standing next to the flight surgeon. I just carried a stretcher – helped carry a stretcher into the aid station. And, ah, the doctor and I were discussing his condition. I was telling the doctor about him and when the shell came through, the flight deck exploded and, I was wounded and the doctor was mortally wounded.
Q: So, you had been under attack for, what, four hours or thereabouts?
A: Well, at that time we’d been under attack about an hour and a half. Maybe, I’d say about an hour and a half into the thing. We had sustained hits for probably over an hour.
Q: Wow.
A: But like I said, a lot of them, they’d fly through and there’d be a big hole here and big hole there and they’d go out and explode in the water.
Q: So where were you – where were you wounded?
A: Well, when that first started I was standing out on the catwalk watching because I didn’t have an assignment. Didn’t have a battle station. My plane was gone, so I was just at loose ends, as were a number of the other guys. And we’re standing out there and I could see these great big explosions in the water. They were colored pink and yellow and green and all beautiful colors – orange. Different ships shot different colors. And they’d see four like this and they’d know how to correct their aim. Wasn’t a very good system because they’d have killed us. There was no logical excuse for his having to fail to sink every one of us. Everybody in that – every commanding officer in that task force knew his ass was done for. There was just no way we could begin to defeat a force – fire power far superior to us; speed superior to ours – the most we could do was nineteen knots – as a matter of fact, he detached part of the cruisers and they circled around over the horizon and came up with us off of our port bow. We thought it was relief coming from the Seventh Fleet. Sure enough, they opened fire at us and the captain said, “Now watch! Now watch ‘em!” About that time those shells exploded around us and they gave an order to make a battle turn to take us away from – we were between two forces, then. Well, he turned and went this way and when he did, we were in the left front. We were in a very good spot during the early part of the battle because the battleships and cruisers were behind us and six carriers like this. We were left forward – fartherest from you. More smoke between us and him. But when they gave that order to make that fleet battle turn, it turned like this and all of a sudden we were three abreast this way headed that way and we were the left rear position and those cruisers began to hit us. And when they did, probably an hour and a half of sustained hits and we were dead in the water. Order to abandon ship had been given. Men were out in the rafts. She rolled over and sank, according to my calculations, and I’ve got it recorded in a diary – I sat down as soon as we were picked up and I wrote these things down – about 9:13 in the morning. We’d been taken under attack about 7.
He chased that – the rest of those guys for another – they sank – the destroyers were ordered to make torpedo runs. One of them had already done it – the Johnston. An heroic Cherokee from Oklahoma skipper and he knew where he was going. He said “It’s a good day to die.” I think he said – I think he’s the one who said to his men, he says, “We are about to engage in a battle from which no one should expect to live.”
Q: Wow.
A: And he turned and headed down between those ships firing those torpedoes. And continued to fight – he was sunk later than two of the other destroyers that were hit and did the same thing, but somehow or other he was able to sustain himself – or was hit in such a way that he was able to fight longer than they. Well, it was a – but because of the personalities involved, Halsey, Nimitz, they didn’t want any debacle – that was the greatest little fight in the history of the navy.
Q: So, how long were you in the water before you were picked up?
A: I estimate 45 hours.
Q: Forty-five hours?
A: Yeah.
Q: Wow. Now I take it you had, you know, a Mae West or something that . . .
A: Well . . .
Q: I mean, you were wounded.
A: Yeah.
Q: Where were you wounded? And how was that in the water with . . .?
A: Well, actually, I’d been wounded twice. We were carrying that stretcher back to the sick bay to the aid station and got a glancing flesh wound in my left leg – knocked my feet out from under me. Had to grab the – knock – set the stretcher down real fast in a dead run and that’s not easy. I thought it was concussion. I didn’t know I’d been hit. Then I was standing there with the doctor when – talking to him and I had turned and the shell fragment came over my head – I guess if I’d been standing straight it would have taken my head off. But instead it hit me above my right shoulder blade and traveled down and lodged into the bottom of that shoulder blade which kept it from coming out. If it had come out, it would have torn my ass off. And I went down (claps his hands). And when I came to after a brief prayer – very brief – I thought, “Oh, wait, if I’m hit” – and I knew I was – “the doctor’s hit. If the doctor dies, we’ll all die.” My mathematics wasn’t too good, but I was worried about Doctor Schuller – no, Stewart, Doctor Stewart. And I turned around and sure enough he was laying there sprawled back out on the deck, ah, I turned and rolled him over and could see that he was – he’d taken it in the head. He got it in the head and he was just mortally stricken. And I called – that’s a funny thing. You know you’re hit, but pain is not a part of it.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: I called to Ski, the – our squadron corpsman, I said, “Ski the doctor’s hit.” He said, “I’ll be there as soon as I can.” I said, “I’ll go tell air plot.” Air plot was what had set us up for the – had asked them – the doctor to send stretchers to get this guy in the first place, and I’d volunteered to carry the stretcher, another guy and I. Because he couldn’t turn his corpsmen loose, they were busy patching up guys who were wounded. Well, I ran back through the passageway and then all the way across the ship to the back end of the ready room to the squawk box to call air plot to advise them that Doctor Stewart had been hit. And did. And when he acknowledged it and said, “Oh, my God,” ah, I turned loose of the squawk box and I headed back for the aid station to work – to help bind somebody’s wounds. I didn’t know I was bleeding like a stuck hog! And I got about in the middle of that room and I thought, “I got to quit running. It’s just too hot to run and I’m – sweat’s running down my back.”
Q: (laughing) Red sweat?
A: Reached back – reached back there and I pulled my hand up – now, I was wearing flight deck shoes, which were rough-outs heavy high-top brogans, ah, my flight suit because I hoped I’d get to fly, my web belt with my .38 and about 50 rounds of ammunition, my Mae West. And all that – no wonder I was sweating! I went over the side and I climbed to the water. Couldn’t get the raft loose from the ship, and so I said, “to hell with this, I’m swimming.” So I took off. And I swam, I guess, a hundred yards from the ship and a guy called me, and I stopped and treading water, he said, “What’s the matter with your Mae West, Phil?” I said, “Nothing, I guess.” He said, “Well, inflate it and blow up my life belt – it’s about to drown me!”
Q: (laughing)
A: The guys that didn’t fly wore little inner tubes around their neck that collapsed over a canvass belt. And you’d pull out a hose and you blew it up and when he was blowing, he would sink, then he’d have to fight to get back to the top and when he did, he’d lose air – he just wasn’t good at! He wasn’t a good swimmer, so he was – couldn’t get things blown up and he was – about to get him. So I said, “Alright.” And he came over to where I was and I grabbed that tube and pumped it full of air right quick and sealed it off and we turned around and headed on away from the ship. That’s the first time I inflated that life vest – wounded – hell, I didn’t – I – I had been paralyzed 30 minutes before because of the psychology. . .
Q: Um-m-m.
A: . . . but when it came time use that arm, I got out there, and, ah, up in a life raft and spent the day – spent two days and nights in that life raft.
Q: So how many – how many men were on the ship, Grover, and how many, ah . . .
A: There were about a thousand – in round numbers there a thousand men on the ship. We lost right at 200, either on the ship or in the water.
Q: And what about the pilots and the crews that were in the air?
A: Pilots and the crews in the air – most of them – we lost – not many. We lost a few.
Q: And where did they recover?
A: Well, ah, they recovered – some of them flew into Leyte and landed at the army – on the field that they were preparing for the army and the army wouldn’t use it yet, but our guys landed. Some of them landed and took off again.
Q: On other – on other ships?
A: No, off of that field at Leyte.
Q: Oh, OK.
A: Some landed on – some of them flew down . . .
Q: So they . . .
A: . . .to Taffy 1 and Taffy 2, who got in part of the fight. They sent planes to it. Those that were on – weren’t on bombing missions covering the landings, they turned their fleet – their guys to help us. So we had more than just of the planes of our – and that’s what made Kurita think that he’d run into a hell of a flotilla of fighter – he thought “they got reinforcements coming and its going to get worse than this” – my gosh, he had planes everywhere! And they were doing – they were flying at him with empty planes like they were carrying torpedoes and he didn’t know they didn’t have torpedoes. He had to dodge – threw his, his fire control off. Some of them landed on Taffy 1 and Taffy 2 planes, ah, ships, rearmed and came back, yeah. Some of them landed at, ah, that field on Leyte and, muddy, and they tore their planes up and couldn’t get back in the air. They all – we all converged, ultimately, after they picked us up and so on and so forth, at Hollandia, New Guinea. Some – the naval hospital was full. I went to a hospital up in the hills called 27th Field Hospital. And, ah, then this Luraleen was getting ready to head for the states and I – they had agreed, you know, it was an army – used as an army transport – they’d agreed to take aboard our ship survivors, ah, the survivors of all different crews – the destroyers and everybody.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: So we got permission, those of us who were not going to be doing anything surgically, got permission to join our ship and so we waited – and that’s another story – we waited around two hours for our papers to come – they didn’t come – I was afraid we’d miss it – didn’t know when it was going to sail. I and two other guys used to ride with a big truck down to the harbor and showed up at the gangway without any orders!
Q: (laughing) So that was obviously your most memorable experience, but then, I mean, after – after you got out of the hospital, then you . . . .
A: Well, I jumped all the way back to the states. I kept complaining that I hurt, that I just didn’t feel good and, and our ship’s doctor, who was a pediatrician, says “You’ll be alright.”
Q: (laughing) Pediatrician?
A: Or a gynecologist, one, I’m not sure which. But it was one of those two! He said, “You’ve just been through a lot. You’ll be alright. You’re just sore. Don’t worry about it.” And the night before we docked in San Francisco, Ski came over and he said, Hey, Phil, you’re to report to the such-and-such hospital – big navy hospital there in the Bay area. I said, “well, that, SOB” – sweet-old-boy. . .
Q: Ah-huh, ah-huh.
A: He – I – Why – I told him I wasn’t right and now he let me to believe I’m going to go home on survivor’s leave and now the night before we dock he changes it. What a terrible thing!
Q: Yeah.
A: He said, “Phil, you know I never did find you. The squadron’s lining up on the flight deck forward port side, ah, I just never did find you.” So, in the morning when we lined up to disembark, I lined up with the squadron and I was lost for 23 days! (laughing)
Q: (laughing)
A: But my back was still draining and one day they caught me in sick bay. Apparently the word was out, and, ah, that I was missing and so on and so forth, and this officer says, “Let’s go.” “What are you doing?!” You know, I’m changing this dressing on this guy’s back. He said, “well, what’s going on? What kind of . . .?” And I said, “shell fragment, still draining.” He said, “What’s your name, sailor?” I told him. He said, “Stand fast. Corpsman, he’s not to leave.” And he took off and in a minute he says, “Come with me fellow.” And we went in to see the hospital director. Some captain. He says, “Where in the hell have you been?”
Q: Right here!
A: I said, “I’ve been right here at Treasure Island all this time.” He says, “They’ve been looking all over the South Pacific! You’re supposed to be at such-and-such a hospital.” I said, “Why didn’t somebody tell me?”
Q: (laughing)
A: He said, “Well, you’re going there now!” And I said, “But wait, wait, wait, now! Sir (garbled) I was wounded October the 25th.” This was December 20th, 22nd – whatever it was – I said, “I’ve lived this long, looks like I ought to be able to go ahead and take my 30-day survivor’s leave and then go to the hospital.”
Q: (laughing)
A: He said to the ensign, he says, “How does his back look?” He said, “Well, it’s a-healing but it’s still draining a little.” He said, “Well, that doesn’t sound bad. Alright, I’m going to let you go, but you must guarantee me that you will report immediately to sick bay when you return from leave.” I said, “Ay-ay, sir.” And my orders were, then, I got a 30-day sick leave, ah, survivor’s leave, and I was to report back to CASU 5 at North Island, San Diego. And when I did, well, I got back, I couldn’t raise this arm. The shell fragment had done some crazy stuff in there and I couldn’t pick it up, and I got scared and went in early, I didn’t take my full thirty days. And that’s when I then went into the hospital, for all practical purposes, and a little bit more story there. The guy took a chest x-ray like for TB and the shrapnel didn’t show up. They put me in the psycho ward for three months.
Q: Oh, my gosh! Oh, my gosh!
A: When they let me out of that, they put me on limited duty. Finally that wound – infection – built back up and came back up out through that scar and popped it open. And when it did I went back to sick bay and I said, “I want to see the head physician – surgeon – head surgeon.” And the doctor said, “What for?” And I peeled up my shirt and he said, “Stand fast, I’ll get him.” (garbled) said, “Come with me.” And he said, “How come that didn’t show up on our x-rays? I’ve got your records.” He said, “Well, he took a TB x-ray.” He says, “And you saw it on the x-ray film of the South Pacific?” The guy said, “Yes, sir, I did.” That doctor said he did not want me to pick up anything heavier than a pack a cigarettes as long as I was in his ward. He wrote on the x-ray form, he says, “I’m giving the order for the length and the strength of the shots to be made. You go down and tell him how to lay – how to lay to get those shots.” And I did and there that sucker was.
Q: So they, obviously operated on you. . .
A: Yeah, dislocated my shoulder – good surgeon. Instead of cutting muscle he spread it and slipped in there and got that . . .
Q: Got the shell. . .
A: . . .shell fragment out, sewed me back up, scar probably yeah long to get that shoulder – that’s so they could get under that shoulder blade. Ah, that was in – I carried it nine months.
Q: Wow. So . . .
A: And. . . .
Q: How long were you, then, I mean, total time. When did you finally get out of the hospital?
A: Well then I wasn’t in the hospital very long then. I probably was only in the hospital a week or ten days.
Q: After the surgery?
A: Yeah, back to limited duty. Ah, but I was in the – and that’s what I was doing – then I went back to doing what I did when I first joined the squadron. They’d bring these planes through – brand new planes that didn’t have the proper equipment to go on to the South Pacific. I was in the radio shack at – there, and we’d put the right equipment in and put the old stuff back or send back to the factory to be upgraded or something. . . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: So we were back doing the same thing again. It was a fairly easy job. It wasn’t too strenuous, so I was – I wasn’t in the hospital very long then. I was in the hospital three months – January, February, March – (garbled) – February, March, April, and then I think that thing broke on me in May, that’s when they took me to surgery. And so by the middle of June I was back on limited duty, you know, light duty and getting better. . .
Q: So, then, how long did you serve total in . . .
A: Under three years. I served – I was out, mustered out – December the 5th comes to mind – of ’45. So February the 3rd to December the 5th is . . .
Q: And then, let’s see, so, were you discharged there in, ah. . .
A: No, I was (garbled) – my parents had moved from McAlister to Fayetteville, Arkansas, so I listed Fayetteville, Arkansas as my home and they shipped me back to Billington, Tennessee separation center. They’d turned that base into a separation center. And I was discharged there and given transport to Fayetteville, Arkansas. Ah, which is where they – the way they did it, you went back to your place of enlistment or to your present home.
Q: I want to try to get these, because I don’t know how much time we got left on the tape, but some of these are, I think, pretty interesting questions here, Grover, and so, ah, well, this one just says what kind of reception did you receive when you got back to the United States?
A: Well. . . .
Q: I guess you actually – when you got back to the states was to the hospital, but I think this probably means when you . . .
A: Well, when the squadron got back – we came back – there’s a picture of a group of us that was taken by the San Francisco Chronicle or whatever it was interviewing us as survivors of the great battle in the Philippines. That picture is available. It was on the front page of the newspaper. Ah, other than that, there was not much clamor. Ah, I hitchhiked from San Francisco on down – we did a lot of hitchhiking in those days.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: A lady picked me up and she says (garbled) “Have you been overseas?” I said, “Yes, Mam, just got back.” She said, “Were you wounded?” I said, “Yes. I’m carrying a pretty good scar right now.” She said, “Oh, it doesn’t show.” I said, “Well Mam, a lot of scars never will show.” And – but that was kind of – you know, there was so many – so many – we didn’t get the kind of exposure we get now. I think we’re getting too much exposure to the daily wounded. That’s just . . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Almost more than you and I can stand. It’s as if everyone of those were one of our family. When I got home on survivor’s leave, there was nobody to meet me at the train station. Dad was working. Mother was taking care of the house and daughter and had borders – roomers that stayed with her because of the Naval Ammunition Depot at McAlister. She had housekeeping job, she was busy. My sister was in school. My brother was supposed to have me the train, but it was an hour and a half or two hours late and he had a date, so he took off.
Q: (laughing)
A: And I got to the depot and there wasn’t anybody there! I threw the bag over my shoulder and started up the street. I was going to walk home. It’s only a mile. We walked in those days. And I got up, about a block and a half up the street, and here was another childhood buddy of mine, Ben Zatoon, and he said, “Grover, I knew you were coming but you’re here!” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Where’s Walter? He was supposed to meet you.” I said, “Nobody there.” He said, “Come on, I’ll take you home.” So he put me in his car and took me out to the house. Mother and Dad were in bed! My sister was awake. Hank, that was Christmas Eve! Christmas Eve night or actually Christmas morning by that time about 12:30 – 1:00 in the morning. Sis was up, shouldn’t have been, scoundrel that she it.
Q: (laughing) Well, it says, in terms of your war experiences, how did those experiences affect your relations and interactions with your family, friends, and spouse? I was curious, was your brother younger?
A: Yes. And he had – he crippled himself in manual training in high school and boogered his finger up and he couldn’t squeeze a trigger, so they wouldn’t take him.
Q: So he just . . .
A: He also had spots on his lung, so that really blew him up. He tried, once he got – wiggled past them some way and they took x-rays and he had spots on his lungs. He joined the merchant marine corps. Merchant marines went to Florida for training. But he wasn’t cut out for that so he came home. (laughing) And if he’d been in the navy, of course, he’d have been AWOL and they’d have hung him, but they didn’t even come after him. It’s kind of a strange thing. He worked at the naval – at the powder plant in Pryor. Everybody – everybody did their share. My wife’s grandfather was 70-some years old and he walked into the ammunition plant at McAlister and said, “I think I ought to be doing something to help.” And they hired him and they said, “How old are you?” He said, “Well, I’m 62” or something like that – it was at least a 10 year lie if not more.
Q: (laughing)
A: And they hired him and he went to work – I talked with one guy since then and they said, “Nick was your wife’s grandfather?” I said, “He was.” He says, “He worked for me. I’d say ‘Nick, take Tom, Bill, and Fred and go out and get all those pallets stacked up and moved over to the other side of the base.” He said, “I never looked back. Nick did it.” We all worked. Everybody tried to do something. I don’t think it changed my relations with my family much or with my future – I think my – my bet had already been established long before I went in the service. I think.
Q: Ah-huh. Ah, do you still keep in touch with any of the people that you served with?
A: We formed an association. In 1968, we had a reunion in St. Louis for the first time – ’67. And, ah, I’d say, probably 100 of the guys showed up.
Q: Now was this your ship?
A: My ship. The squadron ship. The squadron and ship are melded together (claps his hands). We’re the only squadron that ever served in her. It’s a unique circumstance. Most ships have a – have a complement of crews that have served with her for . . .
Q: For a long period of time.
A: . . .a long period of time. Ours wasn’t a year old when she was sunk. The guys that had planks were the guys that were sailing it when she was sunk. And the squadron that was in her when she was sunk was the only one she’d ever had. So, we – we met as a group and we’ve had reunions almost every five years since then up until the last few years and they started having them three years, and then two years, and now they’re having one every year. I don’t go to all of them. But I communicate – they guy whose – the pilot whose plane was sitting on the flight deck in the catapult ready to go off – I communicate with him almost monthly.
Q: Huh.
A: Something or other. And some of the other guys. Interestingly enough, the – William Riley, Phillips, and Lee Guinn McDaniels and I were the three radiomen who were left in the – that department when we went overseas. Neither of them have been to any of the reunions. And I’ve never quite understood that. Riley – Bill Riley – came by to see me once since I’ve been in Midwest City while I was still the chamber exec – he and his family are on their way to Salt Lake City – he turned into a Mormon and he was taking his son up for his mission – you know, they all have to do a mission thing. . .
Q: Right, right.
A: And he was on his way up to deliver his son for mission work. They stopped and we had an evening together. It was really great. But I’ve not seen or heard from him since. Nor Lee Guinn. I talked with several others. Ah, the guy who followed me was Seymour – Bug Eyes – Sroyer, I mean, we had a Seymour in the squadron. Bug Eyes Sroyer – the radioman that finally wound up being his radioman – I communicate with him all the time. He sent me a DVD of the – one of the reunions not too long ago.
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Ah . . .
Q: So how many are still surviving of that – well, I guess, of 800. . .
A: Of 800 – see, of 800 – I think probably 30 per cent is about what’s left. We’re – we’re not any better or worse than the rest of the guys of that era. We’re drop – beginning to drop pretty fast. . .
Q: Ah-huh.
A: Ah, matter of fact, the last epistle I got from Hank Pistowski was that, ah, Holliman who got his shirt torn off of him, is now dead. And, ah, our squadron personnel officer, with whom I had some exposure, is now dead. They both died in the last few months.
Q: How about the skipper? Did he survive?
A: Skipper died – no – yeah – this – the ship’s captain lived. Squadron commander lived. Ship’s captain died, oh, probably 20 years ago. Our first ship’s captain – we finally invited him to a – they didn’t like him. . .
Q: (laughing) It took a long time for . . .
A: They finally invited him to a party and his kids and he’s gone now. He was writing a book, and so he’s gone. And our – our squadron commander contracted vertigo.
Q: Huh.
A: Which meant he couldn’t fly anymore. And he flew a lot even then after the war. And he committed suicide.
Q: Huh.
A: But he was one – oh, what a sweet guy he was.
Q: Huh. So how was your World War II experience – how did that impact your life and did it have impact on your views of other wars the US came (end of tape)
